Kevin J
Banned
The Mustang does have a competitor for the best escort fighter, one that was designed to be an escort fighter from the beginning, the Yak series of fighters. Not designed to escort heavy bombers, but attack aircraft.
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The Mustang does have a competitor for the best escort fighter, one that was designed to be an escort fighter from the beginning, the Yak series of fighters. Not designed to escort heavy bombers, but attack aircraft.You just supported my argument, was the P 51 the best escort fighter of the war, absolutely yes, could it have done what it did before 1943 if hypothetically it was available, absolutely not.
The rise and fall of the German Air force, the Luftwaffe over France by August 1944 was an utterly spent force.
By August 1944 the same could be said for most of the German military, they were in retreat in the east, in Italy and south of France. It is less than 250 miles from Falaise to the Belgian border and all within reach of air forces based in UK and N France.LuftFlotte 3 was brutalized leading up to D Day, all it's facilities airfields and aircraft were rendered unusable, it was reinforced the week following the invasion but could not mount any kind of worthwhile offensive or defensive operations, to make matters worse, a number of it's Flak batteries were moved East to protect hydrogenation plants. The RAF and Eighth AF fought a war of attrition over France, the RAF focused on the Channel coast, 2nd TAF and Eighth AF inland. As quoted in The rise and fall of the German Air force, the Luftwaffe over France by August 1944 was an utterly spent force.
The teardrop canopy P-47s arrived too late for the battle for air supremacy over Europe.As a long range escort, I agree
Theoretically, you could get to Berlin in a late model P-47D with teardrop canopy, but you needed both underwing and fuselage drop tanks and the Jug was a real gas guzzler. It was better to use the Mustang.
The only info I could find was that the Yak 3, an apparently very good dog fighter, did not have very good range compared to the P-51 and lower ceiling. Its light weight would question its armor protection. An interesting series on youtube titled The Attackers, which is based on front line aerodrome flying Yak 3s has the pilots complaining that the Bf 109s had armor seats, implying that the Yaks did not. I enjoyed the series which is a mishmash of combat and romance but shows what a combat squadron of Russian Yak 3s was like, at least from a Russian point of view. I would rate the Yak 3 as a very good low level, short range, tactical escort but not a strategic escort.The Mustang does have a competitor for the best escort fighter, one that was designed to be an escort fighter from the beginning, the Yak series of fighters. Not designed to escort heavy bombers, but attack aircraft.
You just supported my argument, was the P 51 the best escort fighter of the war, absolutely yes, could it have done what it did before 1943 if hypothetically it was available, absolutely not.
I think you'll find the Yak is the only Allied fighter actually designed from the start as an escort fighter.The only info I could find was that the Yak 3, an apparently very good dog fighter, did not have very good range compared to the P-51 and lower ceiling. Its light weight would question its armor protection. An interesting series on youtube titled The Attackers, which is based on front line aerodrome flying Yak 3s has the pilots complaining that the Bf 109s had armor seats, implying that the Yaks did not. I enjoyed the series which is a mishmash of combat and romance but shows what a combat squadron of Russian Yak 3s was like, at least from a Russian point of view. I would rate the Yak 3 as a very good low level, short range, tactical escort but not a strategic escort.
The Mustang does have a competitor for the best escort fighter, one that was designed to be an escort fighter from the beginning, the Yak series of fighters. Not designed to escort heavy bombers, but attack aircraft.
They were designed as escorts from the beginning, light weight, light armament, highly manoeuvrable. The Yak-9D/DD just had longer range.In the WWII Yak fighter series, only Yak-9D and Yak-9DD were designed as escort fighters from the beginning.
I would rate the Yak 3 as a very good low level, short range, tactical escort but not a strategic escort.
They were designed as escorts from the beginning, light weight, light armament, highly manoeuvrable. The Yak-9D/DD just had longer range.
The Mustang does have a competitor for the best escort fighter, one that was designed to be an escort fighter from the beginning, the Yak series of fighters. Not designed to escort heavy bombers, but attack aircraft.
====================================
Göring in long rant about how he cant even bomb Glasgow precedes this:
Galland replies immdiatey after:
Galland:
"I must say, in a Mustang - thats how you can do it."
ORIGINAL: (In einer Mustang! - muss man, dann auch sagen.)
Erhard Milch:
"The Mustang is in another class altogether"
ORIGINAL: (Der Mustang liegt in einer anderen Klasse.)
====================================
RLM stenographic records, 23rd May 1944, 11am.
(35mm microfilm from IWM London, Vol 64, Frame 6965)
That is the obvious thing to do if you have the aircraft to do it. The Luftwaffe didn't have the planes or pilots to execute that strategy, to meet all attacks with similar numbers all around the air space Germany controlled would need thousands of fighters and pilots and all the other "stuff".After the war Galland also said he would have counted the P51 by hitting them as early as possible forcing them to drop their tanks, which did actually happen on the first escort missions. Don't get me wrong, I believe the P 51 was the best escort fighter of the war, what I don't believe is all the hype around it defeating the Luftwaffe, it delivered the coupe de gras, nothing more.
After the war Galland also said he would have counted the P51 by hitting them as early as possible forcing them to drop their tanks, which did actually happen on the first escort missions. Don't get me wrong, I believe the P 51 was the best escort fighter of the war, what I don't believe is all the hype around it defeating the Luftwaffe, it delivered the coupe de gras, nothing more.