Freebird
Master Sergeant
Wir würden wahrscheinlich alle auf Deutsch schreiben. Englisch würde verboten werden. Der Me109 würde alle "das beste Flugzeug" Abstimmungen gewinnen. Der Adler hätte noch die meisten Posten.
What if German had won the war?
- Thread starter olbrat
- Start date
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Que dices? No comprendo ninguno que se habla (no comprendo Aleman). Habla en Ingles por favor! Hablamos Ingles aqui.
Gracias.Venganza
Freebird
Master Sergeant
Que dices? No comprendo ninguno que se habla (no comprendo Aleman). Habla en Ingles por favor! Hablamos Ingles aqui.
Venganza
I use "Free translation", it works fine for short sentances
Free Translation and Professional Translation Services from SDL
Translation:
We would write probably everyone in German. English would be forbidden. The ME109 would win all "the best airplane" votings. The Eagle {Der Adler} still would have the most posts!
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
There have been some historians who have postulated that if the US had not entered the war in 1917, the warring powers, exhausted by war, would have put together a negotiated peace and the Russian Revolution would have been stymied. Not the same as a German victory but I found Bomb Taxi's post persuasive.
Thanks FB for the translation site. I'll have to check it out. It might help make my feeble attempts at Spanish (and irony) a little more accurate. Renrich, I think what might have stymied the Russian Revolution would have been a quick enough German victory so Russia didn't suffer the huge losses in men and land.
Venganza
BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
I think that if the US had not intervened, a negotiated peace would have been almost inevitable - Pershing was by far the most vocal of the "On to Berlin" chorus, and US manpower did much to sustain the Allies through the Peace Offensive and the final Allied counter-offensive. A negotiated peace would probably have been much more favourable to Germany than Versailles was - after all, the British were becoming war-weary, the French army was still recovering from the 1917 disorders, and Russia would probably still have been out of the war, if the Bolsheviks had survived past 1917 or not. There is no doubt in my mind that Germany would have crushed the Left in it's own country then moved east to deal with the Bolsheviks. And I am fairly sure that the British and Americans would have set aside recent differences to help them crush the "Red Menace".
Well said, BombTaxi. I agree. If Germany had gone ahead with the spring offensives in 1918, the terms might have been very favorable indeed to Germany. This brings up the question - would the spring offensives have succeeded without American intervention, or was Germany so exhausted that it was doomed to failure anyway? Of course, the spring offensives themselves seem to have been the result of two factors - the collapse of Tsarist Russia (and later the Kerensky government) which freed up huge numbers of German troops, and the threat of massive American intervention on the continent. Without that U.S. threat, the spring offensives might not have taken place at all, and after disposing of the Russians, the Germans and the French and British might have been willing to find some kind of "honorable" peace - maybe just a return to the status quo ante.
Venganza
Venganza
I agree, considering the fact that the Germans were on French soil and the allies had not set foot on German soil.
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
Most interesting posts and well thought out. Interesting how history unfolds. The Germans declare unrestricted submarine warfare and Wilson finally goes to war to save the world and the result perhaps is a Communist dominated Russia, another year of bloodletting in France, The Treaty of Versailles, WW2 and the 45 years of the Cold War. Maybe the ramifications are not over with yet.
BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
I think the ramifications of that assassination in summer 1914 might not be over in my lifetime (I'm just gone 25 now). The social change that WW1 bought about in Europe, particularly Russia and Germany (obviously), and France and the UK (less obviously), is monumental, and I would go as far as to say that WW1 was more significant than WWII in that respect. A whole system of government, a whole way of life, and most importantly a whole set of values and attitudes went out of the window between 1914 and 1918, and I think we are still living with the consequences today. As renrich said, most of what is going on in the world today can be directly traced to WWI - and I would add the origins of the current situation in the Middle East, to that list as well.
I know that last point is highly controversial, and I really don't want to start something here that should be in the 'Politics' forum, but I believe that the partition of Ottoman territories among the Allies post-WWI was a catalyst for Middle Eastern antagonism toward Europe. Let's not forget, the RAF was bombing Iraq in the 1920s, and British troops fought Iraqi rebels in 1941. Recent events in Iraq therefore have a somewhat familiar ring to them for students of British military history... And arguably, the fact that the Allies nominally controlled Palestine before, during and after WWII was one of the factors that helped to establish Israel in the first place, by providing a ready source of disposable territory.
Like I say, not trying to start a political row here, just want to put that line of thought up for your consideration 8)
I know that last point is highly controversial, and I really don't want to start something here that should be in the 'Politics' forum, but I believe that the partition of Ottoman territories among the Allies post-WWI was a catalyst for Middle Eastern antagonism toward Europe. Let's not forget, the RAF was bombing Iraq in the 1920s, and British troops fought Iraqi rebels in 1941. Recent events in Iraq therefore have a somewhat familiar ring to them for students of British military history... And arguably, the fact that the Allies nominally controlled Palestine before, during and after WWII was one of the factors that helped to establish Israel in the first place, by providing a ready source of disposable territory.
Like I say, not trying to start a political row here, just want to put that line of thought up for your consideration 8)
I am sorry but I had to point this out german
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
Bomb Taxi, agree and fascinating line of thought. Maybe you should be the next Harry Turtledove and write an alternative history series of books about that subject. I am too old and besides want to write an alternative history where Texas does not join the Union.
BombTaxi
Tech Sergeant
Although I haven't got round to reading any Turtledove yet, I am flattered
8) I trained as an early modern historian but I have always been drawn to the 20th century, by the sheer violence and scale of change that occurred, and by the huge range of possible histories that it could have produced. Maybe if I can extend my talents to choosing winning lottery numbers, you will see some books
Harry Turtledove is a great author. I own all of his books. My fovorites from him are:
The Guns Of The South
The World War Saga
World War: In the Balance
World War: Tilting the Balance
World War: Upsetting the Balance
World War: Striking the Balance
Colonization
Colonization: Second Contact
Colonization: Down to Earth
Colonization: Aftershocks
How Few Remain
And I am currently reading his alternate series about World War 1 (The North joins the side of the Germans and the South the side of the Allies
) which is 5 books so far:The Great War
The Great War: American Front
The Great War: Walk in Hell
The Great War: Breakthroughs
American Empire
American Empire: Blood and Iron
American Empire: The Center Can not Hold
Freebird
Master Sergeant
I just read "Agent of Byzantium", a very interesting story.
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
Chris, me too. Bomb Taxi, I hope you give serious consideration to expounding upon your hypothesis about the impacts of WW1 in a novel. The 20th century, from a historical point of view with regard to events and the pace of "modern" development is fascinating. This was brought home to me recently by my experience with an elderly mother. She was born in 1908 and in 2004 I reflected on the changes and world events she had seen and experienced in her lifetime. The Wright brothers had barely flown when she was born but late in her life she flew in a jet to visit a son in Saudi Arabia. She drove a horse and buggy to teach school in South Texas. World Wars, you name it. Unfortunately, by the time I mentioned these subjects to her it was too late to have a conversation. She passed at the age of 97 in her sleep. We live in interesting times.
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