What if the Bf110 only have one pilot?

[Sevvy]

My question is actually pretty simple.

What would have been the implications if the bf 110 only had 1 pilot and became a heavy fighter just like the P-38. Would the performance be greater with it having significantly reduced weight? Or would the weight saved be not enough to make a difference? Would they been able to compete more favorably against the Spitfires and Hurricanes?

 

[tomo pauk]

Welcome to the forum

This is probably material for the "what-if" sub-forum.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Moved

 

[tomo pauk]

What would have been the implications if the bf 110 only had 1 pilot and became a heavy fighter just like the P-38.

Bf 110 already have had just one pilot
Do you want a historical Bf 110 that has lost the rear gunner, with rest remaining the same, or you want Messerschmitt to design something else instead of the Bf 110 in the 2nd half of 1930s?

 

[Shortround6]

historical Bf 110 that has lost the rear gunner,

and the long range radio.

And the ability to to reload the cannon.

Performance would have improved,
Ability to perform as a long range escort may have gone down.

 

[GrauGeist]

The Luftwaffe had a single-seat twin engine fighter opportunity with the Fw187, but it was dismissed.

It seemed that their idea of a "heavy fighter" required a crew of two. The Ar240 was the same way and even the Ta154 was designed for two crewmen.

 

[GTX]

Some crude images I did years ago:

 

[tomo pauk]

The option of a historical Bf 110 retaining just one crew member is probably not going to cut it IMO - aircraft is already too big and too heavy.
Option of MTT making a smaller and lighter 2-engined 1-seat fighter instead of the Bf 110 is far more interesting and with a greater potential. It might be perhaps size of P-38, and of lower weight than the P-38 (no turbo, no twin boom design, no tricycle, no heavy .50s with their heavy ammo).

and the long range radio.
And the ability to to reload the cannon.
Performance would have improved,
Ability to perform as a long range escort may have gone down.

Short-range radio will do - after all, the escorted He 111s are as good as in visual contact.
Smaller and lighter fighter = better fuel mileage.
Add another pair of MG17s for total of six - more than enough to endanger the enemy fighters even once the drums run empty. Another possibility is to forgo the MG FFs until they get better ammo supply, and go with 10-12 MG 17s.
Option of two MG C30/L (instead of MG FFs) + big ammo boxes is also there (yes, RoF is bad, but MV is excellent, so is the fire duration). MG FFs/FFMs with bigger drums are also possibility.

 

[Admiral Beez]

My question is actually pretty simple. What would have been the implications if the bf 110 only had 1 pilot

Perhaps you mean the two-pilot Bf 108?

 

[Capt. Vick]

I hate to point out the obvious but the Bf 110 did only have one pilot.

 

[SaparotRob]

Hey Sevvy and welcome to the Forum.

 

[Steve Hnz]

Some pretty unhelpful comments from a few to a guy new to the forum. Welcome, S Sevvy It doesn't take too much to figure out where Sevvy is coming from & as a couple have alluded to, the performance increase in just loosing the Funker/Luftschutze would be minimal, but might have caused Messerschmidt to have designed a different aircraft with shorter, slimmer fuselage & smaller wings, perhaps like a twin tailed teutonic DH Hornet, or maybe more like a twin engine 109, which could perhaps been a whole different billy of piscines than the 110 was.

 

[GrauGeist]

As I mentioned earlier, the RLM wasn't really interested in a single-seat, twin engine fighter.

They wanted a "Zerstorer" with a two man crew along with being capable of several roles (too many, actually).

 

[Admiral Beez]

It is noteworthy that Germany didn't put twin DB 601 engines into anything single seat. I'd like to see how a IMAM Ro.57 would do with a pair of DB 601s, essentially a single seat Ro.58.

 

[GrauGeist]

The only production single seat, twin engined aircraft the Luftwaffe had (excluding the Me262) in service, was the Hs129.

 

[Steve Hnz]

As I mentioned earlier, the RLM wasn't really interested in a single-seat, twin engine fighter.

They wanted a "Zerstorer" with a two man crew along with being capable of several roles (too many, actually).

True, but my reading of the OP is not so much why didn't they do it but what would have happened if they did. Your response is the obvious answer to the first, the answer to the second is far more hypothetically based & ranges from a 110 without a back seater & his accoutrements to an entirely different type of fighter, which as you have mentioned, the RLM were too thick to see any potential in this type of machine, for which we should be truly grateful. As I mentioned above, such a machine might have been truly useful to the Luftwaffe & a real handful for the RAF. Let's be thankful that the RLMs lack of flexibility during the war was as entrenched as it was.

 

[pb43]

My question is actually pretty simple.

What would have been the implications if the bf 110 only had 1 pilot and became a heavy fighter just like the P-38. Would the performance be greater with it having significantly reduced weight? Or would the weight saved be not enough to make a difference? Would they been able to compete more favorably against the Spitfires and Hurricanes?

It did only have one pilot!

 

[cammerjeff]

Actually I have read that they Modified a couple of Me410's to single seat configuration and they were used in a home defense group. I will have to dig up my 210/410 book. I always thought it would be interesting to see what the performance was without the rear armament and second crew member.

 

[Capt. Vick]

I hate to point out the obvious but the Bf 110 did only have one pilot.

Upon reflection this attempt at humor went over like a lead balloon, and has been taken as an "attack" of sorts on a welcomed new member. My apologies to him and the forum for posting it. My intent was never to poke fun, as those who know me must surely have known, but we should expect more from ourselves and especially mods.

 

[Steve Hnz]

Upon reflection this attempt at humor went over like a lead balloon, and has been taken as an "attack" of sorts on a welcomed new member. My apologies to him and the forum for posting it. My intent was never to poke fun, as those who know me must surely have known, but we should expect more from ourselves and especially mods.

Well done Capt Vick, big ups to you for this post, admirable mate.