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The USAAC was very interested in single engine "interceptors", however they had to meet USAAC requirements/needs.To be fair the USAAC was not interested in a single engine interceptor aircraft at that time.
They weren't? I'd like to see the proof for that, it'd be news to me.To be fair the USAAC was not interested in a single engine interceptor aircraft at that time.
You ask a simple answer to address a complex political and industrial environment. Strictly speaking the US was shocked when WWII began - and nearly 100% universally determined to not get involved again. Nearly 100% of the total US Industrial capacity was devoted to commercial markets. Army hated Navy, Air Force was struggling for free rein from Army HQ and fighting USN that did not want Air Force programs competing with Naval Air for very scarce dollars.When I mentioned not having monies in the period we're talking about a number of others proceeded to tell me that with war on the horizon congress had already loosened the purse strings. Of course after Dec. 7th, the sky was no longer the limit when it came to available monies but a number of others here have said that plenty was already available before the attack. So which was it?
At least in my view a competent manufacturer would not be enamored of a single successful product to the point of doing nothing but variations on a theme. A forward thinking company would have a minimum of one new design on the boards and ideally would be looking at two or three possibilities of new designs and exploring how they might be achieved. The worst thing a aircraft company can do is to sit on it's laurels.
My curiosity gets the better of me oh wise one. In your learned opinion, what were the odds of P-38's showing up for the scrap at Midway in June '42? My slim grasp of reality says probably not going to happen but without some magic wand waving or pixie dust, was it possible?*SNIP*
So, what magic can you imagine to put a superior fighter to A6M in the airspace over Pearl Harbor, in a span of 15 months - other than the P-38E which deployed in squadron strength only a month before? The P-40C and F4F were 'competitive' with superior tactics - but not equal.
Final note - The AAC-MC started to wake up as the war in Europe and Asia and then Russia in June 1941. They started issuing contracts before full flight testing. B-25 and XP-47B were examples but look to how long before the P-47C was deployed and near combat capable - December 1942
Joe - even the F-117 had some 'encouragement', probably from black funding dollars to pursue a proposal from Skunk Works to adopt the obscure Soviet paper on signal damping to an airframe. Note: I am not sure.You seem to not realize that 99% of the time any aircraft company, even a "forward thinking company" does not just go off and design an aircraft for the military just for the hell of it (this is called an unsolicited offer). Aircraft companies are driven by a contract specification to build an aircraft to a certain specification, in the US folks at Wright Patterson AFB or Pax River usually do that. I'm not aware of any operational US fighter aircraft from WW2 that began life unsolicited, and if someone knows better, please correct me. The only combat aircraft I'm aware of that evolved from an unsolicited offer in modern times was the F-117A.
I'm thinkin' Zero Probability based on Lockdown of Hawaiian islands and and defense tasking- and many P-38E were being converted to F-4 in December to February timeframe. The P-38E was also installing the ferry tank/bomb pylons as kits. It was 'possible', just not probable.My curiosity gets the better of me oh wise one. In your learned opinion, what were the odds of P-38's showing up for the scrap at Midway in June '42? My slim grasp of reality says probably not going to happen but without some magic wand waving or pixie dust, was it possible?
Thanks.
The BT-8 was 'solicited' and Arnold prevailed on NAA to compete. The resulting win' of the NAA BT-9 was arguably the contract that fed all subsequent development activities for BC-1 and AT-6/HarvardBut were they unsolicited? The P-35 and P-43 were designed to a specification IIRC, don't know about the BT-8
Probably more than some. What I think is likely is that Lockheed did some IR&D (which is largely company funded but interesting enough so the government chucks a few pennies at it), then it got funded when the government determined it was militarily useful enough to cough up the funding.Joe - even the F-117 had some 'encouragement', probably from black funding dollars to pursue a proposal from Skunk Works to adopt the obscure Soviet paper on signal damping to an airframe. Note: I am not sure.
I sense that you don't grasp the mindset of AAC/AAF in the late 1930s. First, save the B-17 there was no high speed/high altitude bomber that approached YB-17 performance. In 1937-1938 there were zero Pursuit fighters truly capable of effective interception. The stipulation by AAC-MC that single stage supercharged engines could be mated with turbos to provide the high altitude interception capability for the inevitable catch up - but Pursuit aviation was focused on parallel development of offshore Pursuit designs. The XP-40 and XP-39 w/o turbo were deemed high performance and with respect to top speed were competitive with Spitfire I and Hurricane and Bf 109C/D - and actually with A6M. With peak performance FTH, the single stage/single seed Allison V-1710 was just fine vs He 111 and Do 17 in the Curtiss M75/P-40 and Bell P-39B.To be fair the USAAC was not interested in a single engine interceptor aircraft at that time.
I think there was a solicitation put out to several manufacturers (IIRC) and Lockheed wasn't initially invited to the party. Through some contacts and persistence, folks at the Skunk Works was able to convince some DARPA folks a demonstrator model can be built to show the feasibility of Stealth Technology. They gave a nod (without a committed solicitation) and "Have Blue" was born. I think this is mentioned in Ben Rich's book.Joe - even the F-117 had some 'encouragement', probably from black funding dollars to pursue a proposal from Skunk Works to adopt the obscure Soviet paper on signal damping to an airframe. Note: I am not sure.
I don't remember exactly, it may have been Jean-Jacques Bullard, but an African American took part in the Spanish Civil War as a fighter pilot for the Republicans (the anti fascists side) and returned to America and tried to warn the War Dept. about how advanced German aviation was. He was ignored most likely because of the color of his skin. Getting on my anthropologist soap box, look at a human skeleton and tell me what race it is. Racism is a combination of cancer and type II diabetes rolled into one and it is slowly killing us.Human nature.
Dehumanizing a class, race or nation gives a sense of superiority.
That tactic is about as old as the Human race itself.
Has anyone learned from the countless lessons over the eons?
No. No, they have not...
Jean-Jacques Bullard flew in WW1 and as far as I know did not participate in the Spanish Civil War but was very active in WW2I don't remember exactly, it may have been Jean-Jacques Bullard, but an African American took part in the Spanish Civil War as a fighter pilot for the Republicans (the anti fascists side) and returned to America and tried to warn the War Dept. about how advanced German aviation was. He was ignored most likely because of the color of his skin. Getting on my anthropologist soap box, look at a human skeleton and tell me what race it is. Racism is a combination of cancer and type II diabetes rolled into one and it is slowly killing us.
????I don't remember exactly, it may have been Jean-Jacques Bullard, but an African American took part in the Spanish Civil War as a fighter pilot for the Republicans (the anti fascists side) and returned to America and tried to warn the War Dept. about how advanced German aviation was. He was ignored most likely because of the color of his skin. Getting on my anthropologist soap box, look at a human skeleton and tell me what race it is. Racism is a combination of cancer and type II diabetes rolled into one and it is slowly killing us.
Frank TinkerOther fliers who flew on the Republican side were shunned in the US because of politics, i.e the Republican side enlisted the aid of Communist Russia.
Misremembered 'cause I am old. It was Frank Tinker, thanks for the reminder, and I guess it did not come across but you'd think any amount of information from someone who was there would be useful.????
Hap Arnold was VERY aware of Spanish Civil War developments, particularly the demonstrated vulnerability of daylight bombers to Pursuit aircraft. Enough so that he overturned the Emmons Board priorities which placed development of Pursuit aircraft with 1500 mi range from 4th to 1st. He was already developing a sense of foreboding that the 'Bomber (B-17 and B-24) May Not Always Get Through'.
As to being his warnings rejected because of the color of his skin, he was in fine company with Claire Chennault - which if memory serves, was Not African American.
And Frank Tinker was white...Misremembered 'cause I am old. It was Frank Tinker, thanks for the reminder, and I guess it did not come across but you'd think any amount of information from someone who was there would be useful.
Yes, got it.And Frank Tinker was white...