What If?......

bronzewhaler82 · Apr 12, 2004

You can't criticise the Belgians and I personally don't think you should put the French army and the Belgian army in the same bracket under 'useless'

The Belgians might not have been much good at fighting but at least they fought the Germans hard and refused to give in when other nations bent over and let the Germans have their way without even resisting....

plan_D · Apr 12, 2004

You're joking, right?

Belgium fell faster than France, 7 days. 5 Weeks for Poland, 4 days for Denmark and Norway, 7 days for Belgium, 6 weeks for France. Belgium, Denmark and France were all useless. The only reason I don't include Holland there is because a lot of Dutch supported Germany, and the government ordered cease fires before Germany even got there.

Belgium collapsed, they collapsed and ran. Just like the French. And then they had the cheek to have a go at Britain for pulling out.

bronzewhaler82 · Apr 13, 2004

Of course i'm not joking disgust

The Belgians were asked by Germany if they could allow the German army to pass through Belgium to strike the French - If the Belgians allowed this the Germans promised not to harm them - however the Belgians refused and when Germany then threatened them 'or else' the Belgians said "Bring it on"

The Belgians may have fallen quickly but that was only because their army was weak and had no experience, they didn't run away (unlike the French in the Rhineland ) - plus Belgium is considerably smaller than france my friend

The Belgians fought the Germans every inch of the way and refused to give in - as i said they might not have been effective but they fought hard and didn't surrender - and after Belgium was taken alot of them came over here to join our airforce and fight the Luftwaffe during the Battle Of Britain...so i really think you ought to show them some respect

And Norway wasn't useless either!

brad · Apr 13, 2004

bronzewhaler82 said:
Of course i'm not joking disgust

The Belgians were asked by Germany if they could allow the German army to pass through Belgium to strike the French - If the Belgians allowed this the Germans promised not to harm them - however the Belgians refused and when Germany then threatened them 'or else' the Belgians said "Bring it on"

The Belgians may have fallen quickly but that was only because their army was weak and had no experience, they didn't run away (unlike the French in the Rhineland ) - plus Belgium is considerably smaller than france my friend

The Belgians fought the Germans every inch of the way and refused to give in - as i said they might not have been effective but they fought hard and didn't surrender - and after Belgium was taken alot of them came over here to join our airforce and fight the Luftwaffe during the Battle Of Britain...so i really think you ought to show them some respect

And Norway wasn't useless either!

well said

the lancaster kicks ass · Apr 13, 2004

rather................

plan_D · Apr 13, 2004

No, the Belgians lasted 7 days, 7 days isn't worth respect they gave in straight away. The Rheinland wasn't even French land, it's just like our appeasement on the Munich Crisis.
I never said the Norweigans were useless, I said the Danish. Completely different countries. A lot of French came over here and fought as well, you have double standards. You either respect both the French and Belgians or you respect none of them. They were both the same, they gave in as soon as the Germans took their safety catches off.

Poland had much less of an army than Belgium and they lasted 5 weeks, they deserve respect not Belgium, or France.

Size doesn't make power, look at Britain, it controlled one third of the world.

Maestro · Apr 13, 2004

plan_D said:
No, the Belgians lasted 7 days, 7 days isn't worth respect they gave in straight away. The Rheinland wasn't even French land, it's just like our appeasement on the Munich Crisis.
I never said the Norweigans were useless, I said the Danish. Completely different countries. A lot of French came over here and fought as well, you have double standards. You either respect both the French and Belgians or you respect none of them. They were both the same, they gave in as soon as the Germans took their safety catches off.

Poland had much less of an army than Belgium and they lasted 5 weeks, they deserve respect not Belgium, or France.

Size doesn't make power, look at Britain, it controlled one third of the world.

Danish were not useless! Danishs fought harder than you can immagine! They were only surprised by German troops. It's recognised world wide, just look in a good history book or ask peoples who were there. I know somebody of my family that was there and he didn't gave up.

And that's almost the same thing for the Dutch. Of corse, they fell fast, but they resisted after the invasion (like the Danish). I know a Canadian commando that fought in the Operation Market-Garden, he said that the Dutch were welcoming them like if they were gods and that the "resistance" against the Germans was much harder than in France.

And like an other member said about Belgium, Denmark and Holland are quite smaller than France, so they couldn't have a BIG army.

France had a big country with a big army. Danish and Dutch had a small country with a small army. France has a much bigger population than Denmark or Holland. So look carefully at every aspects of a conflict before saying that a country is useless.

plan_D · Apr 14, 2004

When the Allies went into Holland they were very welcoming, like a lot of them were of the Germans. The women that were shaven by the Dutch men and swastikas drawn on their heads, traitors. The Dutch didn't fight, neither did the Danish. Resistance movements were small, very small. The Danish ordered cease fires before the Germans even arrived, 'do not provoke the German forces'.
Do you think the Polish had a good military? They lasted five weeks, a lot longer than Denmark or Belgium. I don't care about the Dutch, they had a Dutch SS, they weren't bothered. You have double standards, France were useless, just like Denmark and Belgium, or none of them were useless.
Not all of France was against Germany, the Vichy French supported them. The French got hit just as hard, if not harder than the Belgians or Danish. The Germans went through the Ardennes, Belgian land but with the British and French trying to hold it.

And the French lasted 6 weeks, there is no excuse for 7 days.

Maestro · Apr 14, 2004

Your point about Dutch SS is wrong... I mean, yes, it had a Dutch SS but who cares? West-Canadian created a Waffen SS regiment in Alberta in 1939, Québec created a Nazi Party also in 1939, and U.S.A. created the Klu Klux Klan and we went at war. No one fell in front of the IIIrd Reich, nor Canada, nor U.S.A.!

Go there:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-invasion-denmark-norway-01.html

You'll see that Denmark was surprised. They sought a Treaty of Non-Aggression with the Germany the 31st May 1939 and the were attacked the 9th April 1940. A Treaty of Non-Aggression means that the country want to stay neutral, not that they surender or that they are allied with Germany!

And if you look History, you'll see that the Denmark was in war with the Germany almost every days since the beginning of Antiquity. Those countries don't like each others, they would never be allied!

You want a proof? My great grand-father was Danish. He fought the German at the end of the 19th century an moved here around the year 1900. I think the country was still at war!

You want more? Look in the Larousse Dictionary (a French dictionary). Find "Danemark" and read what is written. It's written "...en 1864: le Holstein, le Slesvig et le Lauenbourg furent enlevés au Danemark, après une guerre où les vaincus déployèrent le plus grand courage..." So I don't think they would love the German enough to surender without fighting. Even if the battle was short, it was a tough one.

An other thing, I think Einstein was Danish, wasn't he ? (If somebody knows, tell it to me.) He was a Jewish Danish that requested asylum to the U.S.A. after his country was invaded. The guy who found the secret of atomic power was Danish! So this country isn't useless.

But we must keep in mind that they were SURPRISED in 1940.

And of corse I have double standards! Polish didn't had a big army, but the country was big. The Denmark or the Holland was the half smaller than Poland, even smaller!

When you talk about war, you must take in consideration the political background, the size of the country, the size and power of the army, their technological adventages/desaventages, the weather, geographical area... EVERYTHING! Not only the time they held and the size of their army!

bronzewhaler82 · Apr 14, 2004

plan_D said:
No, the Belgians lasted 7 days, 7 days isn't worth respect they gave in straight away. The Rheinland wasn't even French land, it's just like our appeasement on the Munich Crisis.
I never said the Norweigans were useless, I said the Danish. Completely different countries. A lot of French came over here and fought as well, you have double standards. You either respect both the French and Belgians or you respect none of them. They were both the same, they gave in as soon as the Germans took their safety catches off.

Poland had much less of an army than Belgium and they lasted 5 weeks, they deserve respect not Belgium, or France.

Size doesn't make power, look at Britain, it controlled one third of the world.

You don't think holding off an army as big as the Germans for 7 days is worth respect? don't be a fool
it isn't the amount of time they held the Nazis off that matters...the point is they fought...and for your information it was France's job to look after the Rhineland and the wankers ran off before the Germans even got there...most of the French army were cowards...which can't be said of the Belgians...i don't know where you get your information from but i'm beginning to think its another planet

you said in one of your previous posts that Norway lasted as long as the Danes and then said the Danes were useless - based on that logic (though your logic seems faulty in this case ) to say the danes were useless based on the amount of time they held off the Germans (which seems the only reasonable basis for your arguments) then logically you are tarring Norway with the same brush...

I don't have double standards...of course there were some French fighters that came over here...but only VERY FEW - the vast majority of French soldiers/pilots etc didn't want to know about the war - they were worse than Americans! (No offence America )

I don't respect the French (during that period) but I DO respect the Belgians....because they deserved respect...and as for your remark about the Belgians giving in as soon as the Germans took their safety catch off...i'm not going to even waste my time answering such a ridiculus statement...all i will say is this: Do your homework because i think your ignorance on this subject is offending some people....

bronzewhaler82 · Apr 14, 2004

And another thing.....it took 18 days for the Belgians to give in...not 1 week

please see link which also shows that the Belgians were only equipped with 1 squadron with a handful of aircraft...unlike the French who had hundreds of planes...

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWbelgium.htm

plan_D · Apr 14, 2004

It's funny how you talk about the Dutch SS, then go on about the Danish in the same subject. Dutch isn't Danish. Stick to one country. The Dutch SS was part of the German army, and fought against the Allies in Operation Market Garden.
There was a British SS, made up of 15 British POWs, there was a British Facist Party, the Black Shirts, 40,000 supporters. This means, what? Nothing because Britain was never taken.

The Danish were surprised, and they gave in straight away. 1900 isn't 1940. The Russians were surprised in 1941, lost almost all of their army, airforce and tank force within a few months. Surprised isn't any excuse. The Belgians, and Danish didn't even get hit hard, they were distraction strikes, it was the British and the French that felt the worst of the blow.
You go on about size of country, the smaller your country easier to defend its small borders. One of the problems with Poland was it had a huge border to defend. Don't even bother with it, you have the cheek to abuse the French and the Americans, but you have respect for Belgium, that's a joke. Poland had one of the worst forces in Europe and it held both Germany and Russia off for 5 weeks, and had one of the most well organised resistance forces in the war.
Belgium and Denmark didn't do anything.
No, Denmark and Norway lasting out the same length of time doesn't mean you tar them with the same brush. Many Norweigans carried on the fight and helped our commandos in Norway.

You maybe should look at how a war is fought, and look how quickly their government, then their people collapsed. I cannot believe you have the cheek to abuse the French, who throughout the war had the French Resistance, the Free French coming over to Britain and others going to Russia flying for the Russians into combat with the Tri red white and blue on their spinners. The many French helping POWs escape. What did the Belgians do? 18 days...what's 18 days..nothing. The French lasted 6 weeks, and that wasn't even all of France since the Vichy French supported Germany.

You're all jokes if you think the French were useless then go on about the Belgians and Danish being helpful. Hahaha

plan_D · Apr 14, 2004

And NAZIs hate the KKK, learn a little first please.

plan_D · Apr 14, 2004

War isn't only fought in the air..it was the panzers that won it for the Germans, fast, powerful strikes. Air support was needed, but if you've actually read up on Fall Gelb then you'd see the impact the French planes had on German strikes. You try and protect Belgium by saying they only had a few planes, they had plenty men and machines, plus the support of the British and the French. If the French and Belgians didn't collapse, the British wouldn't of had to pull out and it might have been over in 1940...Belgians were useless.

plan_D · Apr 14, 2004

Nice siggy by the way, what was that 1st May 1940?

the lancaster kicks ass · Apr 14, 2004

bit of a change in your tone there...............

bronzewhaler82 · Apr 14, 2004

plan_D said:
It's funny how you talk about the Dutch SS, then go on about the Danish in the same subject. Dutch isn't Danish. Stick to one country. The Dutch SS was part of the German army, and fought against the Allies in Operation Market Garden.
There was a British SS, made up of 15 British POWs, there was a British Facist Party, the Black Shirts, 40,000 supporters. This means, what? Nothing because Britain was never taken.

The Danish were surprised, and they gave in straight away. 1900 isn't 1940. The Russians were surprised in 1941, lost almost all of their army, airforce and tank force within a few months. Surprised isn't any excuse. The Belgians, and Danish didn't even get hit hard, they were distraction strikes, it was the British and the French that felt the worst of the blow.
You go on about size of country, the smaller your country easier to defend its small borders. One of the problems with Poland was it had a huge border to defend. Don't even bother with it, you have the cheek to abuse the French and the Americans, but you have respect for Belgium, that's a joke. Poland had one of the worst forces in Europe and it held both Germany and Russia off for 5 weeks, and had one of the most well organised resistance forces in the war.
Belgium and Denmark didn't do anything.
No, Denmark and Norway lasting out the same length of time doesn't mean you tar them with the same brush. Many Norweigans carried on the fight and helped our commandos in Norway.

You maybe should look at how a war is fought, and look how quickly their government, then their people collapsed. I cannot believe you have the cheek to abuse the French, who throughout the war had the French Resistance, the Free French coming over to Britain and others going to Russia flying for the Russians into combat with the Tri red white and blue on their spinners. The many French helping POWs escape. What did the Belgians do? 18 days...what's 18 days..nothing. The French lasted 6 weeks, and that wasn't even all of France since the Vichy French supported Germany.

You're all jokes if you think the French were useless then go on about the Belgians and Danish being helpful. Hahaha

I can't actually believe you're still coming out with this nonsense!

The smaller the country the easier it is to defend!

How about this one? the smaller the country, the smaller the army and the easier it is to overrun - did that make any sense to you?

Belgium wasn't a distraction - if you knew anything you'd know it was important stratigicly - hitler was stupid but he wouldn't waste all that effort, equiptment and manpower in Belgium to 'distract' the French (who were a joke to Hitler and understandably so) and the BEF (which was so bloody useless it got kicked out of France trying to help the French of all people who were well beyond help at that point) I mean what the hell was he trying to distract the French from? the fact that they were doomed? he should've told them! that way they could've run away quicker and he could've occupied it in a day!

I never said the Belgians were 'helpful' I NEVER said that... i never even said they were very good fighters all i said was they TRIED and they FOUGHT hard and never surrendered when they so easily could have...they earned my respect for their effort...if the British had lost the Battle of Britain would you say they deserved respect? you probably wouldn't but anyone with any sense would say "of course they do - they fought bloody hard and at least they tried"

France lasted six weeks because of the size of the country and because they had the BEFs help...without those factors they wouldn't have lasted anywhere near that amount of time 8)

For you to say any of these countries (except France) were useless truly shows how foolishly judgemental you are...you may know alot about tanks and i'll take my hat off to you for that
and i mean no offence but you clearly know fuck all about the Belgian war effort mate

the lancaster kicks ass · Apr 14, 2004

The smaller the country the easier it is to defend!

not, true, as they're smaller, they wouldn't have a big army, so if anything, it makes it harder to defend...............

bronzewhaler82 · Apr 14, 2004

Exactly, hes just talking...

the lancaster kicks ass · Apr 14, 2004

and what allot of talking it is................

What If?......

Senior Airman

Lieutenant Colonel

Senior Airman

Airman 1st Class

Major General

Lieutenant Colonel

Master Sergeant

Lieutenant Colonel

Master Sergeant

Senior Airman

Senior Airman

Lieutenant Colonel

Lieutenant Colonel

Lieutenant Colonel

Lieutenant Colonel

Major General

Senior Airman

Major General

Senior Airman

Major General

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads