bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
Do YOU think the Belgians deserve respect?
What If?......
- Thread starter cheddar cheese
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
very much so..........................
Maestro
Master Sergeant
bronzewhaler82 said:
The smaller the country the easier it is to defend!
How about this one? the smaller the country, the smaller the army and the easier it is to overrun - did that make any sense to you?
Belgium wasn't a distraction - if you knew anything you'd know it was important stratigicly - hitler was stupid but he wouldn't waste all that effort, equiptment and manpower in Belgium to 'distract' the French (who were a joke to Hitler and understandably so) and the BEF (which was so bloody useless it got kicked out of France trying to help the French of all people who were well beyond help at that point) I mean what the hell was he trying to distract the French from? the fact that they were doomed? he should've told them! that way they could've run away quicker and he could've occupied it in a day!
I never said the Belgians were 'helpful' I NEVER said that... i never even said they were very good fighters all i said was they TRIED and they FOUGHT hard and never surrendered when they so easily could have...they earned my respect for their effort...if the British had lost the Battle of Britain would you say they deserved respect? you probably wouldn't but anyone with any sense would say "of course they do - they fought bloody hard and at least they tried"
France lasted six weeks because of the size of the country and because they had the BEFs help...without those factors they wouldn't have lasted anywhere near that amount of time 8)
For you to say any of these countries (except France) were useless truly shows how foolishly judgemental you are...you may know alot about tanks and i'll take my hat off to you for that
and i mean no offence but you clearly know f**k all about the Belgian war effort mate
Well said, Bronzewhaler82!
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
"for sale, one Freanch rifle, never used, only dropped once......."
Maestro
Master Sergeant
plan_D said:
Hey buddy, wake-up!
Yes the Russians were surprised, they hadn't any technological adventage, it's true. But they had a f***ing big army, with a f***ing leader (Staline) and a f***ing weather.
The reason why the Germans were not able to take the Russia is that they were "surprised" by the cold (very cold) Russian winter. This combined with the size of their army made a deadly match! So don't tell me surprise isn't an excuse.
An other thing: you're wrong concerning the size of the country. The smaller the country is the smaller his army also is. So the easier the BIG German army will conquer it.
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
Exactly 8)
- Thread starter
- #87
cheddar cheese
Major General
wow, plan_D's really slipped up there
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
not like him................
- Thread starter
- #89
cheddar cheese
Major General
well, everyones entitled to a mistake once in a while 8)
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
some more than others...................
Slipped up? Hahah. So, now you're all thinking that it was only Belgium that defended it's homeland? There was no BEF or French forces on the Belgian border? Well there was, so that's your 'small army' out of the window.
Where do you think the BEF was? It stretched over the Belgian border with France, into the Ardennes, and onto the Belgian border with Germany. Belgium was strategic? Hahaha. No, never looked at the German invasion plan, have you?
The belief of the French, British and Belgian forces were that this war would be the same as World War 1 where it was a slow moving trench war, mostly in Belgium. The Germans would never attack the Maginot Line head on (this part they were right).
There fore they placed 800,000 French on the Maginot line and spread the rest of the forces (Belgians, Dutch and British) across the North of the Line, and to the East bordering with Germany, and France. The weakest point of this long line was in the Ardennes, as it was not believed that an attacking army could transverse this area effectively (How wrong they were).
The German plan, on the other hand was one of fast lightning strikes, Blitzkrieg. Which would consist mostly of armour and supporting infantry in APCs, with close air support. Attacks would be to the North, into Belgium as a diversion, and to pin down the Belgians, and Dutch there (which soon collapsed, although outnumbering the attacking forces).
The main thrust of the attack (including Rommels 7th Panzer division) would drive with utmost speed through Luxembourg, through into the Ardenne forest (in Belgium), and into France as France and the many rivers in Eastern France were the main target, leading to Paris. Also, this was the weakest part of the Allied Lines. Another part of Blitzkreig, (which most people forget) is not just fast armour and air support, but a concentrated strike which spreads behind the enemy fortified lines. As Heinz Guderian said 'Punch with your fist, not your fingers spread' Heinz Guderian for you simpletons, or simply Aviation nuts, was the creator of Blitzkrieg, and the idea on the Wehrmachts tank arm.
This 'punch' was through the Ardennes, and spread quickly into France bypassing Belgium. It then spread behind the lines of the enemy, and with the help of paratroopers captured many bridges over vital rivers. Then, in co-ordination with the forces that had punched through the Ardennes, a frontal attack on the 800,000 strong Maginot Line from Germany occured, collapsing the line as a portion of the forces already in Germany broke off and attacked the line from the back, crushing it. The forces that attacked Holland moved swiftly into Belgium creating a three pronged attacked. As the British had been moved further north in response to the German attack due to the attack on Belgium and Holland a few days prior to the attack on the Ardennes, they were left moving but were the only force there capable (through brilliant command skills) to perform a decent counter-strike taking back two cities (Useless were they? I will give the names, if asked). Until realising that the Belgians and French were proving no help, they left the cities under strong German, armoured and air pressure and began making a quick retreat to Dunkirk with Rommel in hot pursuit, after having his 'holiday' as the Phantom Division in France. The 300,000 BEF (A slight portion of the whole Allied Army involved in Plan D) retreated to Dunkirk and the Royal Navy started shipping them off, the Belgians and French that had also retreated came back, offending the British, then asking to be pulled off as well. Although the Belgians and French were greater in number than the British, it was left to the British to defend the perimeter, exhausted and with a mere 26,000 men. After the Dunkirk Evacuation the Germans, Italians and Spanish defeated France within 6 weeks, many escaped French joined the Free French in Britain or Russia, the French Resistance fighting throughout the war. With the Vichy French in control of South West France, until 1942 (Yes I did say Spanish, who attacked with 2 reserve divisions, that were soundly beaten by the French). When the 120,000 Vichy French in North Africa were practically walked over by the Americans landing in Morocco.
So, as you will be able to see, the Belgians didn't take the full force of the punch, or maybe you will just keep your eyes shut.
Where do you think the BEF was? It stretched over the Belgian border with France, into the Ardennes, and onto the Belgian border with Germany. Belgium was strategic? Hahaha. No, never looked at the German invasion plan, have you?
The belief of the French, British and Belgian forces were that this war would be the same as World War 1 where it was a slow moving trench war, mostly in Belgium. The Germans would never attack the Maginot Line head on (this part they were right).
There fore they placed 800,000 French on the Maginot line and spread the rest of the forces (Belgians, Dutch and British) across the North of the Line, and to the East bordering with Germany, and France. The weakest point of this long line was in the Ardennes, as it was not believed that an attacking army could transverse this area effectively (How wrong they were).
The German plan, on the other hand was one of fast lightning strikes, Blitzkrieg. Which would consist mostly of armour and supporting infantry in APCs, with close air support. Attacks would be to the North, into Belgium as a diversion, and to pin down the Belgians, and Dutch there (which soon collapsed, although outnumbering the attacking forces).
The main thrust of the attack (including Rommels 7th Panzer division) would drive with utmost speed through Luxembourg, through into the Ardenne forest (in Belgium), and into France as France and the many rivers in Eastern France were the main target, leading to Paris. Also, this was the weakest part of the Allied Lines. Another part of Blitzkreig, (which most people forget) is not just fast armour and air support, but a concentrated strike which spreads behind the enemy fortified lines. As Heinz Guderian said 'Punch with your fist, not your fingers spread' Heinz Guderian for you simpletons, or simply Aviation nuts, was the creator of Blitzkrieg, and the idea on the Wehrmachts tank arm.
This 'punch' was through the Ardennes, and spread quickly into France bypassing Belgium. It then spread behind the lines of the enemy, and with the help of paratroopers captured many bridges over vital rivers. Then, in co-ordination with the forces that had punched through the Ardennes, a frontal attack on the 800,000 strong Maginot Line from Germany occured, collapsing the line as a portion of the forces already in Germany broke off and attacked the line from the back, crushing it. The forces that attacked Holland moved swiftly into Belgium creating a three pronged attacked. As the British had been moved further north in response to the German attack due to the attack on Belgium and Holland a few days prior to the attack on the Ardennes, they were left moving but were the only force there capable (through brilliant command skills) to perform a decent counter-strike taking back two cities (Useless were they? I will give the names, if asked). Until realising that the Belgians and French were proving no help, they left the cities under strong German, armoured and air pressure and began making a quick retreat to Dunkirk with Rommel in hot pursuit, after having his 'holiday' as the Phantom Division in France. The 300,000 BEF (A slight portion of the whole Allied Army involved in Plan D) retreated to Dunkirk and the Royal Navy started shipping them off, the Belgians and French that had also retreated came back, offending the British, then asking to be pulled off as well. Although the Belgians and French were greater in number than the British, it was left to the British to defend the perimeter, exhausted and with a mere 26,000 men. After the Dunkirk Evacuation the Germans, Italians and Spanish defeated France within 6 weeks, many escaped French joined the Free French in Britain or Russia, the French Resistance fighting throughout the war. With the Vichy French in control of South West France, until 1942 (Yes I did say Spanish, who attacked with 2 reserve divisions, that were soundly beaten by the French). When the 120,000 Vichy French in North Africa were practically walked over by the Americans landing in Morocco.
So, as you will be able to see, the Belgians didn't take the full force of the punch, or maybe you will just keep your eyes shut.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
i say, jolly unsporting what what..................
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
plan_D said:Slipped up? Hahah. So, now you're all thinking that it was only Belgium that defended it's homeland? There was no BEF or French forces on the Belgian border? Well there was, so that's your 'small army' out of the window.
Where do you think the BEF was? It stretched over the Belgian border with France, into the Ardennes, and onto the Belgian border with Germany. Belgium was strategic? Hahaha. No, never looked at the German invasion plan, have you?
The belief of the French, British and Belgian forces were that this war would be the same as World War 1 where it was a slow moving trench war, mostly in Belgium. The Germans would never attack the Maginot Line head on (this part they were right).
There fore they placed 800,000 French on the Maginot line and spread the rest of the forces (Belgians, Dutch and British) across the North of the Line, and to the East bordering with Germany, and France. The weakest point of this long line was in the Ardennes, as it was not believed that an attacking army could transverse this area effectively (How wrong they were).
The German plan, on the other hand was one of fast lightning strikes, Blitzkrieg. Which would consist mostly of armour and supporting infantry in APCs, with close air support. Attacks would be to the North, into Belgium as a diversion, and to pin down the Belgians, and Dutch there (which soon collapsed, although outnumbering the attacking forces).
The main thrust of the attack (including Rommels 7th Panzer division) would drive with utmost speed through Luxembourg, through into the Ardenne forest (in Belgium), and into France as France and the many rivers in Eastern France were the main target, leading to Paris. Also, this was the weakest part of the Allied Lines. Another part of Blitzkreig, (which most people forget) is not just fast armour and air support, but a concentrated strike which spreads behind the enemy fortified lines. As Heinz Guderian said 'Punch with your fist, not your fingers spread' Heinz Guderian for you simpletons, or simply Aviation nuts, was the creator of Blitzkrieg, and the idea on the Wehrmachts tank arm.
This 'punch' was through the Ardennes, and spread quickly into France bypassing Belgium. It then spread behind the lines of the enemy, and with the help of paratroopers captured many bridges over vital rivers. Then, in co-ordination with the forces that had punched through the Ardennes, a frontal attack on the 800,000 strong Maginot Line from Germany occured, collapsing the line as a portion of the forces already in Germany broke off and attacked the line from the back, crushing it. The forces that attacked Holland moved swiftly into Belgium creating a three pronged attacked. As the British had been moved further north in response to the German attack due to the attack on Belgium and Holland a few days prior to the attack on the Ardennes, they were left moving but were the only force there capable (through brilliant command skills) to perform a decent counter-strike taking back two cities (Useless were they? I will give the names, if asked). Until realising that the Belgians and French were proving no help, they left the cities under strong German, armoured and air pressure and began making a quick retreat to Dunkirk with Rommel in hot pursuit, after having his 'holiday' as the Phantom Division in France. The 300,000 BEF (A slight portion of the whole Allied Army involved in Plan D) retreated to Dunkirk and the Royal Navy started shipping them off, the Belgians and French that had also retreated came back, offending the British, then asking to be pulled off as well. Although the Belgians and French were greater in number than the British, it was left to the British to defend the perimeter, exhausted and with a mere 26,000 men. After the Dunkirk Evacuation the Germans, Italians and Spanish defeated France within 6 weeks, many escaped French joined the Free French in Britain or Russia, the French Resistance fighting throughout the war. With the Vichy French in control of South West France, until 1942 (Yes I did say Spanish, who attacked with 2 reserve divisions, that were soundly beaten by the French). When the 120,000 Vichy French in North Africa were practically walked over by the Americans landing in Morocco.
So, as you will be able to see, the Belgians didn't take the full force of the punch, or maybe you will just keep your eyes shut.
Oh well done, well done!
Blimey it must have taken you ages to copy that out of a textbook
Despite your 160 page essay which i feel should be handed over to a teacher for marking
It doesn't change my opinion that the Belgians fought hard and you have no right to get all nasty and question their bravery - you should show some bloody respect
you can tell me the British fought hard, you can even tell me the FRENCH fought hard but for you to say the Belgians deserve NO respect at all just makes you a
As much as you believe I copied that, we aren't all kids, and some have minds of our own. They were all my own words, since you are still in school, I'd advise you write stuff in your own words as well. You get in deep trouble for copying.
In fact I'm quite happy you think I copied that, but also saddened that you obviously can, or at least believe you cannot create that yourself.
The funny thing about this discussion is, I never said I didn't respect the Belgians (which you seem to have drilled in your head), I said that the Belgians and the French as armies were useless, for a variety of reasons. This does not mean I do not respect those individuals that fought bravely, I was always stating the nations army as useless, which looking back, you can see that 18 days, and the reasons for British withdrawal were the collapse of Belgium and France.
I have always said, if you respect the Belgians, you should respect the French, which you don't. Double standards. Your assumptions on many things are disapointing, I thought maybe we could have had a reasonable discussion, I've come to the unfortunate conclusion you do not have the capability to do so. Maybe, you'll prove me wrong.
If you want my personal opinion, it would have been easier to ask than to assume.
In fact I'm quite happy you think I copied that, but also saddened that you obviously can, or at least believe you cannot create that yourself.
The funny thing about this discussion is, I never said I didn't respect the Belgians (which you seem to have drilled in your head), I said that the Belgians and the French as armies were useless, for a variety of reasons. This does not mean I do not respect those individuals that fought bravely, I was always stating the nations army as useless, which looking back, you can see that 18 days, and the reasons for British withdrawal were the collapse of Belgium and France.
I have always said, if you respect the Belgians, you should respect the French, which you don't. Double standards. Your assumptions on many things are disapointing, I thought maybe we could have had a reasonable discussion, I've come to the unfortunate conclusion you do not have the capability to do so. Maybe, you'll prove me wrong.
If you want my personal opinion, it would have been easier to ask than to assume.
- Thread starter
- #95
cheddar cheese
Major General
i dont think bronze is still in school 
and no army is useless in truth; cos even if they are bad at least they are putting all their effort in
and no army is useless in truth; cos even if they are bad at least they are putting all their effort in
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
not if their french................
Crazy
Senior Airman
I agree with plan_D, an army putting forth it's best effort can still be useless. However, it is doing it's best, can't ask for more than that.
And no half-trained army with a grain of pride will turn tail without SOME fight, unless it's strategically advantageous to fall back. It's just a matter of will and training. Either the French weren't trained to fight the comparatively superior Germans, or they didn't have the will to defend France. I'm guessing the former was the case, but the latter is always possible, and in some cases, was probably an occurance.
And no half-trained army with a grain of pride will turn tail without SOME fight, unless it's strategically advantageous to fall back. It's just a matter of will and training. Either the French weren't trained to fight the comparatively superior Germans, or they didn't have the will to defend France. I'm guessing the former was the case, but the latter is always possible, and in some cases, was probably an occurance.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
aslong as they put in all their effort, it doesn't matter if they're crap............
Users who are viewing this thread
Similar threads
- Locked
