What If...?

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SUperflanker37 said:
That's not what my history teacher told me.. he said the jet did fly during WWII, but never entered combat. Maybe I should get an award for "most misinformed".. or just "most clueless"

Print this out for your history teacher....

DESCRIPTION:
The historic Me 262 Schwalbe (Swallow) was the first jet-powered aircraft ever to see combat. The project began in 1938 when Messerschmitt was called upon to design a new fighter powered by two gas turbine engines being developed by B.M.W. The configuration eventually chosen featured a sleek streamlined fuselage with the two podded engines carried beneath a low-mounted wing.
Although the airframe was ready to fly by 1941, the early B.M.W. turbojet engines were well behind schedule due to prolonged development delays. German designers instead chose to make the first flights using a single piston engine located in the nose. These early flights confirmed the good handling characteristics of the Me 262 and allowed other systems to be tested until the jet engines were finally ready a year later. Being conservative, the designers decided to keep the piston engine in the nose as a backup. Luckily, this move paid off. On its first jet-powered flight, the Me 262 had barely become airborne using the combined power of all three engines when both jets failed. The auxiliary piston engine provided just enough power to make a safe landing, thereby saving the plane for future testing.

It is a common misconception that the Me 262 might have won the war if Adolf Hitler had not delayed the project by insisting the aircraft be used as a bomber. Though this demand did play a role, as did the indifference of key Luftwaffe leaders, it was continuing problems developing the jet engines that provided the greatest impediment to the program. However, Junkers had finally developed engines of sufficient power and reliability by late 1943 to make the new fighter feasible.

The Luftwaffe began committing the remarkable Me 262A-1a to combat in mid-1944 when air defense squadrons were pitted against the columns of heavy bombers making daily raids on German cities and military targets. Later models included the Me 262A-2a Sturmvogel (Stormbird) bomber and the Me 262B two-seat night fighter carrying an early form of airborne radar.

Despite being well-armed with 30-mm cannons and air-to-air rockets, the Me 262 was simply too little too late to turn the tide of war in Germany's favor. Maintaining production was difficult due to Allied attacks on industrial centers, and many aircraft were destroyed on the ground or shot down because of poor pilot training. The few that did see action may have outclassed their Allied opponents in terms of speed, but several were lost to the superior numbers and better maneuverability of enemy piston-powered fighters.

A total of about 1,430 examples of the Me 262 were ultimately built, though only about 300 ever saw combat. Many of the survivors were captured by the victorious Allies and used to help jumpstart the blossoming jet age.

Data below for Me 262A-1a
Last modified 14 November 2004



HISTORY:
First Flight 18 April 1941 (with piston engine)
25 March 1942 (with jet engines)
Service Entry

30 June 1944


CREW: (Me 262A) 1 pilot
(Me 262B) 1 pilot and 1 radar officer


ESTIMATED COST:

unknown


AIRFOIL SECTIONS:
Wing Root NACA 00011-0.825-35
Wing Tip

NACA 00009-1.1-40


DIMENSIONS:
Length 34.79 ft (10.60 m)
Wingspan 40.96 ft (12.48 m)
Height 12.58 ft (3.84 m)
Wing Area 233.58 ft2 (21.70 m2)
Canard Area

not applicable


WEIGHTS:
Empty (Me 262A-1a) 8,380 lb (3,800 kg)
(Me 262B-1a) 9,700 lb (4,400 kg)
Typical Load 14,110 lb (6,400 kg)
Max Takeoff 15,720 lb (7,130 kg)
Fuel Capacity 635 gal (2,400 L)
Max Payload

at least 2,200 lb (1,000 kg)


PROPULSION:
Powerplant two Junkers Jumo 004B-1/-2/-3 axial turbojets
Thrust 3,968 lb (17.7 kN)


PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at altitude:
(Me 262A-1a) 540 mph (870 km/h) at 19,685 ft (6,000 m)
(Me 262A-2a) 470 mph (755 km/h)
(Me 262B-1a) 495 mph (800 km/h)
at sea level: 515 mph (825 km/h)
Initial Climb Rate 3,935 ft (1,200 m) / min
Service Ceiling 37,565 ft (11,450 m)
Range 565 nm (1,050 km)
g-Limits unknown


ARMAMENT:
Gun (Me 262A-1a) four 30-mm MK 108 cannons (two w/100 rds ea, two w/80 rds ea)
(Me 262B-2a) some equipped with one 50-mm MK 114 cannon
Stations two external hardpoints
Air-to-Air Missile none
Air-to-Surface Missile none
Bomb (Me 262A-2a) up to two 1,100 lb (500 kg) bombs
Other (Me 262A-1b) up to 24 55-mm R4/M rockets
(Me 262B-2a) up to 48 55-mm R4/M rockets


KNOWN VARIANTS:
Me 262 V1 First prototype initially fitted with a piston engine to test flight characteristics, later fitted with two B.M.W. 003 turbojets
Me 262 V2 through V12 Test aircraft
Me 262A-0 Preproduction aircraft
Me 262A-1a Schwalbe Production single-seat fighter interceptor fitted with four cannons in the nose
Me 262A-1b Single-seat interceptor fitted with R4M air-to-air rockets
Me 262A-2a Sturmvogel Single-seat bomber based on the Me 262A-1a
Me 262A-5a Reconnaissance model
Me 262B-1a Two-seat trainer
Me 262B-1a/U1 Early two-seat night fighter equipped with a radar in the nose
Me 262B-2a Improved two-seat night fighter
Me 262C Test aircraft fitted with rocket-assisted takeoff gear; 3 built


KNOWN COMBAT RECORD:

World War II (Germany, 1944-1945)


KNOWN OPERATORS:

Germany
 
CC said:
I dont remembere that at all...

well ok maybe not infront of the whole class, but a few people heard :p


and print this out for your history teacher too:

The Avro 683 Lancaster was the best heavy bomber to see service over Europe or at night during WWII. :toothy5:
 
or just send him into a country pub full of cider and beer drinking farmers armed to the theeth with pitch forks and shotguns and watch as he orders a bicardi breezer :lol:
 
the lancaster kicks ass said:
or just send him into a country pub full of cider and beer drinking farmers armed to the theeth with pitch forks and shotguns and watch as he orders a bicardi breezer :lol:

That would be funny! CC might even find a wife (or something) very quickly!
 
he wouldn't find a wife, the one woman in there would be indistingishable from a man and would be the first to punch him in the face :lol:
 
I'll then pull out an MP-5 I got from...somewhere....and take them all out. Or just say ok im leaving and then call in an airstrike on the bar. I wouldnt go the pub in the first place though ;)
 
Back to the What If, A question about Normandy, would the landings have been repelled if the guns on Point De hawk were in place and firing on the beaches?

With that, would it have mattered to have the German armor moving at first contact, not hours latter?
 
MP-Willow said:
Back to the What If, A question about Normandy, would the landings have been repelled if the guns on Point De hawk were in place and firing on the beaches?

With that, would it have mattered to have the German armor moving at first contact, not hours latter?

As far as the guns at Point Du Hoc, I have two words, Battleships. Yes a battleship would have taken longer to knock the guns out, but BB shells with airstrikes would have maybe not knocked out the guns but made them inoperable. The reason why the the Rangers landed here was really to be able to get behind the guns and do a blocking position behind the guns.

As far as the armour, with Allied air supremacy those tanks would have been sitting turtles whether the Little Corporal or not had realeased them to Rommel.

:{)
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Agreed in order for the landings to have been destroyed, the Luftwaffe would have had to have shown up on D-Day.
Agreed Alder, and then they would have had to have been able to achieve at least parity with the Allied airforces to achieve real damage. On D-day the Luftwaffe (I think) made around 2000 sorties to the allies 15000+. For damage to be done, they would have to have shown up in numbers, which they didn't. It didn't matter where the Panzers where, what mattered was the air superioty without D-day would not have succeeded, that was once of the main reasons in the postponement of D-day to the 6th anyway below the required level of visibility required for the planes as well as poor sea conditions.
 
Ja my friend. "Pips" Priller and his wingman did one strafing pass over the British beaches in thier Fw-190s. Just as an aside, in the movie the Longest Day this incident was shown but the planes were Me-108s the fav 109 impostor!

:{)
 
CurzonDax said:
Ja my friend. "Pips" Priller and his wingman did one strafing pass over the British beaches in thier Fw-190s. Just as an aside, in the movie the Longest Day this incident was shown but the planes were Me-108s the fav 109 impostor!

:{)

I would think the fav 109 imposter be the Ha-1112's. They have been used in many films including The Battle of Britain and Memphis Belle. They look much closer to a 109 than a 108 also.
 

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