What If...?

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but chances are hitler would have held her back anyway because he didn't want to loose her......................

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap probably, I can actually see that have happened.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i mean after the loss of the Bismark i don't think hitlet would have wanted to take a risk with an aircraft carrier, this of the effect on the people's morale??

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Also the effect it would have had on him.

 

[trackend]

Thats a great post Rich
I believe that any threat presented by a surface raider be it carrier or battleship it would have been dealt with in the appropriate manner the famous channel dash succeeded because of surprise and the only available attack that could be mounted at short notice was the stringbags against an obviously overwhelming superior force but as with Operation Sea lion should the need have arisen the navy was prepared to use large numbers of its fleet to prevent invasion or serious surface raiders
I agree with you Rich if the GZ had shown its nose or been discovered it would have been goodbye within days .

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I too agree.

 

[delcyros]

GZ at op-sealion? It wouldn´t have been ready in time. Production was delayed with the loss of the Bismarck and later postponed (with a short exception in 1943). My point is that GZ ,under normal circumstances, wouldn´t have seen much use. It would have been putted into a "safe" norwegian Fjord and therefore it could last. It would have been very risky to attack her. (...but I don´t doubt that the Brits would try...) But I don´t see why it should have been sunken soon, lets say, in late 42? Why? Imagine a reliable scenario, I´m open to change my mind...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

why would she have gone down so quick?? because she was underarmed and she'd have half the royal navy chasing her...........

 

[Concorde247]

What about a squadron of Lanc's with 12000lb Tall boy bombs!!!

Remember how the tirpitz was sunk?

They would have gone through any armour the Graf Zepplin had like Playdough!!!

 

[R Leonard]

What about a squadron of Lanc's with 12000lb Tall boy bombs!!!

Well, they better come in nice and low and skip-bomb them into her hull. We already know that high altitude bombing of maneuvering ships just doesn't work.

Rich

 

[Concorde247]

they would probably go right through out the other side!

 

[trackend]

I didn't say that the GZ could have been at operation Sea-lion Del I just was saying that if it had posed any sort of threat it would have been eliminated in very short measure.The fact remains that the German surface fleet in WW2 was small compared to the fleets arrayed against it . This is not to say the German vessels did not pose a threat but compared to the U-boat problem it was of a far more minor nature.
Even if you include the GZ just assuming it had been ready by 1939
the inbalance in navel surface supremacy is obvious therfore the probability of any significant contribution made by the GZ would be minimal before it would have been removed from the scene. This was known by Admiral Donitz hence his concentration on the U-Boat campaign.

For example this is the Royal Navy and German Navy surface fleet strengths in 1939

Royal Navy (surface fleet), 1939.

15 Battleships Battle-cruisers,
7 Aircraft carriers.
66 Cruisers,
184 Destroyers
32 fleet destroyers
20 escort destroyers of the 'Hunt' class.
source http://www.naval-history.net/WW2CampaignRoyalNavy.htm

German Kriegsmarine (surface fleet) 1939

Battleships/Pocket Battleships 5
Aircraft Carriers --
Cruisers 6
Destroyers 17
source http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/7624/tables/GerN.htm

(neither of these sets of figures include smaller escort or patrol vessels)

 

[cheddar cheese]

How many U-Boats were around at the time?

 

[KraziKanuK]

How many U-Boats were around at the time?

You can look here, http://uboat.net/

 

[trackend]

60 British submarines and 57 German U- boats although i was talking surface vessels only

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

however U-boats would have little part to play in a surface encounter of the type we're considdering.......

 

[Nonskimmer]

You never hear much about the exploits of the British submarines in WWII.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i know a bit about the ol' midget submarines..........

 

[trackend]

May I suggest you take a look at this sight, it is I think one of the better ones with a good easy to follow lay out
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/ww2sm2.html

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I am sorry del, but I agree with them. The GZ would not have made it very long. Just the fact that Hitler would have put a Carrier out to sea would have given them another battle cry just like Sink the Bismark, Sink the Graf Zeppelin. She would have been hunted and killed. The Royal Navy was too powerful for her or anyone else. I also dont think Hitler would have risked her anyhow, especially after losing the Bismark.