What kind of car do you drive?

[cheddar cheese]

That would be because theyre petrol then...

A Land Rover Defender with a TD5 engine will go more places than any other 4x4. A Cherokee is better all-round, because theyre more luxurious where as Defenders are quite agricultural...I'd have a Discovery or a Range Rover if I wanted an upmarket SUV though, and although the Grand Cherokee is a great SUV, its second to the Range Rover IMO. Always will be because of the image thing. A Defender will have anything off road though.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Funny 'cos last time we had a flash flood here, we had about 9 cars pull into our road with stalled out engines. Three of 'em were Land Rovers!

Land Rovers are good vehicals but Jeep has perfected it and you get the most for your money at an affordable price.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That would be because theyre petrol then...

A Land Rover Defender with a TD5 engine will go more places than any other 4x4. A Cherokee is better all-round, because theyre more luxurious where as Defenders are quite agricultural...I'd have a Discovery or a Range Rover if I wanted an upmarket SUV though, and although the Grand Cherokee is a great SUV, its second to the Range Rover IMO. Always will be because of the image thing. A Defender will have anything off road though.

Sorry but the Grand Cherokee went more places and performed better up hill, off road and through water than the Range Rover. I dont actually have time to post the info right now because I am actually still packing for our trip tomorrow but I promise to post the facts and I will do it fair and post the info where the Range Rover was better, but the Jeep beat out the Range Rover in the most important events and came out on top overall.

 

[Matt308]

Hummer H1. Not the mamby-pamby H2 or H3. That beast will eat Defenders for lunch.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

People in the states us them to haul things around on there land such as farms and stuff

yes and every single farmer over here owns a defender, and none will give them up, we bought ours second had 20 years ago and she still passes her MOT every year, and there're plenty out there that're older............

And I guarantee you that I could out perform your Land Rover with my V8 Grand Cherokee and haul more stuff with it two.

go have a look around at where Land Rovers are used, and what they're used for, they've been in production almost unchanged for coming up to 60 years, and for a damn good reason, bring on your steel foundry, the Land Rover will beat it and it currently beating it on every continent on earth, and RE the price, American vehicles over here are more expensive than Land Rovers, does your info take into account import costs? Over here you don't have to look far for a roadworthy defender for a few hundred pounds........

thats what the use is, to haul big heavy ****

No, that's what trailers are for, just how often do most owners actually have to move heavy stuff? I'm with Glider and i'll wager almost never, then, for the rest of the time you have to haul around those massive beasts? and for what gain? what do they do when not hauling heavy stuff? those stupidly large monsters under the "hoods" guzzle a hole in your pocket, it's only because fuel's so cheap in America that most people can afford them, i've seen 1 ton hay bales on the back of Land Rovers and they handled it no problem, i'm not saying the American pickups can't, i'm just saying Land Rovers can so don't think they can't...........

I picked up a 250lb dresser the other day w/ the pickup - no removing seats or playing any of those suv games. That's a perfect use for a full-size pickup, ain't it?

I'm begging you not to tell me you think that's big or heavy! and the Defender isn't a SUV, they're what stupid people in Chelsea drive to drop their kids off at private school............

However, they do enjoy a hell of a reputation here as well regarding their capabilities... matt is right though, you pay a hefty fee for it.

For a range rover perhaps but we're talking Defenders, over 15,000 are used by the Army even the SAS use them........

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Hummer H1. Not the mamby-pamby H2 or H3. That beast will eat Defenders for lunch.

note the subtle differences between the two though

1) driving the Defender isn't the sole reason for the rise in the Earth's temperature through global warming

2) it's possible to drive a defender on the road and fit it in a parking space

 

[mkloby]

I'm begging you not to tell me you think that's big or heavy! and the Defender isn't a SUV, they're what stupid people in Chelsea drive to drop their kids off at private school...........

Dude - it ain't heavy - but the VOLUME it took up was quite large... Mr Britain rules all But seriously - my point WAS that you can toss that thing in the bed - takes 5 seconds. You can't do that in the rover! No taking seats out and monkeying around w/ crap to make more cargo space. And the defender is what would be classified as a sport ute, at least here in america (which I don't think they import them here as I've never seen one)... unless there's an invisible bed on the back of it that Americans are not able to see. I do understand your point regarding the big trucks - but my friend, there are many people that use the heck out of those things on a daily basis and do things w/ them that the rover just can't do.... sorry.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yes and we use our defender all the time over here, ours isn't even an open back but i can't see any use for a pick up that a Defender can't do!

no "flat bed"? There are hundreds of variations you can get Defenders in- literally! here's the 110 Double cab

and single cab, sorry the picture's so small, note also the snorkel, you can submerge her up to the level of the snorkel and she'll run like a dream

and the 130, this's the double cab but imagine the single cabs (which i can't find a picture of), that's a LOT of room with the added advantage of being able to cover it with a soft or hard top, an ability many pick ups lack.........

 

[mkloby]

Ok thanks for the pics. I can tell you this though - that dresser would definitely NOT fit in that teeny bed on the 110... that's not exactly a real pickup bed. I'm trying to imagine the 130 w/ a larger bed. How many feet is the bed? THat seems definitely more practical than the 110.

Ok lanc, I'm buying more into your usefulness of the defender a little bit here, surprise surprise. Although, I haven't seen a single pickup that you can't get a hardtop bed cover, I'm not sure about soft tops though.

 

[Glider]

I have never seen a rover in the USMC...

However, they do enjoy a hell of a reputation here as well regarding their capabilities... matt is right though, you pay a hefty fee for it.

The US rangers currently use a vehicle based on the 110 version of the Landrover. One advantage being that it fits into the helicopter whereas the US based version had problems in this area.

 

[Glider]

Found this which adds more detail.

Each Ranger Battalion possesses 12 Ranger Special Operations Vehicles (RSOVs) for its airfield seizure mission. The vehicle is a modified Land Rover. Each vehicle carriers a six or seven-man crew. Normally, each vehicle mounts an M240G MG and either a MK-19 Grenade Launcher or a M2, .50 cal MG. One of the passengers mans an anti-armor weapon (RAAWS, AT-4, LAW, and Javelin). The main purpose of the vehicle is to provide the operation force with a mobile, lethal defensive capability.

 

[Matt308]

The Defender IS a neat little vehicle. Hell don't they still make them with a universal transmission to allow one to hook up tractor attachments to it at the front of the vehicle? I think they introduced a refined version under the Defender moniker in the US on a larger scale a couple of years ago as a cheaper alternative to the very expensive Land Rover. However, I still think they are going for $40k+ US. Adler and his jeep are going to be all over that price range. Wonder what a Jeep goes for in the UK?

 

[mkloby]

Found this which adds more detail.

Each Ranger Battalion possesses 12 Ranger Special Operations Vehicles (RSOVs) for its airfield seizure mission. The vehicle is a modified Land Rover. Each vehicle carriers a six or seven-man crew. Normally, each vehicle mounts an M240G MG and either a MK-19 Grenade Launcher or a M2, .50 cal MG. One of the passengers mans an anti-armor weapon (RAAWS, AT-4, LAW, and Javelin). The main purpose of the vehicle is to provide the operation force with a mobile, lethal defensive capability.

Good info. I have no idea the types of equip that Army uses other than what I've personally seen. Again - I've never seen on in the Marines. We are developing the ITV (internally transportable vehicle) built by American Growler of Florida, which is easily helo transportable and will include high-mobility weapons platform and comm versions. Here's a pic of the new piece of gear ala HQMC.

 

[Matt308]

Dang. Obviously different mission parameters from HUMMV in middle east. Either that or we aren't learning diddly.

 

[mkloby]

Dang. Obviously different mission parameters from HUMMV in middle east. Either that or we aren't learning diddly.

Well if you mean heavily armed and armored mounted patrols or CAA(combined anti-armor) patrols, like what we are conducting in Iraq - no that definitely will not be this guy's mission. Think more along the lines of Force Recon or MARSOC...

 

[Matt308]

Does look cool. Is this a congressional approved procurement? Or just a response to a Marine "request for proposal"?

 

[mkloby]

Does look cool. Is this a congressional approved procurement? Or just a response to a Marine "request for proposal"?

It's been in testing for over a year w/ the Marines. I believe it's a secured project, unlike the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle... although MV-22 has top development priority right now. Ospreys will be able to tote these as well as CH-53s.

 

[Matt308]

Made in FL, huh. It does have that "swamp buggy" look to it.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

How many feet is the bed?

i'll work it out tomorrow

Each Ranger Battalion possesses 12 Ranger Special Operations Vehicles (RSOVs) for its airfield seizure mission. The vehicle is a modified Land Rover. Each vehicle carriers a six or seven-man crew. Normally, each vehicle mounts an M240G MG and either a MK-19 Grenade Launcher or a M2, .50 cal MG. One of the passengers mans an anti-armor weapon (RAAWS, AT-4, LAW, and Javelin). The main purpose of the vehicle is to provide the operation force with a mobile, lethal defensive capability.

that's just one of hundreds of versions/variations on the Defender, Land Rover, that's Land Rover not any other organisation modifying it, even make fully armered patrol version, full armor plat all over, it's a beast! the thing is that all across the range everything's so spartan and universal parts can be readily changed, to the back of the first cab they're pretty much all the same!

Hell don't they still make them with a universal transmission to allow one to hook up tractor attachments to it at the front of the vehicle?

they've been all but unchanged for 50 odd years, yes you can mount things on the front or go all out and get full hydraulic linkage plus PTO on the rear! for those not in the know that's exactily the same as what tractors have on the back of them! obviously not capable of taking full size impliments but usefull none the less, that PTO can power almost anything.......

I still think they are going for $40k+ US

you have GOT to be kidding me, no wonder you guys thought they were expensive, a really top quality second hand defender that will last a lot longer than you will will set you back on a few thousand £, although i can't speak for a new one...........

 

[Matt308]

Oh well Lanc. I bet the Jeep is outrageous in your parts too. Import taxes, little demand, infrastructure, parts. Not enough to mitigate those non-recurring costs.