Which aircraft logged the..... (1 Viewer)

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plan_D said:
It's nice that you are both saying that the Bismarck couldn't stand up to the post-1943 US BBs (which is true) but the Bismarck sailed in 1941. To stop the Bismarck in 1941, the US would have had to do the same as the Royal Navy did.

You certainly are making the Royal Navy out to be useless. I'm sorry you fail to see that it had been spread from the across almost every ocean in the world.
And where was the USN in the Indian ocean, Dec 1941? Licking their wounds. See, we can all point fingers to say someone wasn't helping the other, so stop it.

How could the Ark Royal help during Midway? Battle of Midway - June 1942. H.M.S Ark Royal SUNK - 13th November 1941 while escorting Malta Conoys.

It'd have a job helping when it was at the bottom of the Med!

I said I thought it was the Arc Royal, apparently I was mistaken on that detail. In any case the British did have 1 carrier defending Madagascar, and the USA asked that it help with the battle of Midway after decoding the Japanese plan, but the British refused. I can look up which carrier if you like?

In Dec. 1941 the USA was just barely in the war after suffering a devestating sneak attack, that is an unfair comment to make. At Midway, Britain and the USA were both at war with Japan, so it is an entirely different situation.

The North Carolina class BB's were available in 1941. For ship-ship combat these were about equal to the South Dakota class (they lacked the AA capability until refit). Without the advanced fire control, it would have been a closer matchup, but the tougher armor and much bigger guns would still give the NC the advantage. While it lacked the computer aimed firing system, it still had radar ranging and aiming capability (though this was much improved when it was refit in 1943).

I'm not saying the RN was useless. Rather, they were slightly obsolete, and as you say they were spread thin. Also, their primary focus had to be on maintaining the capacity to repel a German invasion, so they could not afford to take too big a gamble to go hunt down one ship.

=S=

Lunatic
 
North Carolina lacked the armor of the SoDak. Therefore, they weren't the equal in ship-to-ship combat. As an example, North Carolina had absolutely no immunity against their own 16in fire.
 
Lightning Guy said:
North Carolina lacked the armor of the SoDak. Therefore, they weren't the equal in ship-to-ship combat. As an example, North Carolina had absolutely no immunity against their own 16in fire.

The NC class was not quite as good as the SD class:

USS North Carolina (BB55)
Displacement: 35,000 tons
Length: 728'9"
Beam: 108'4"
Draft: 26'8"
Speed: 27 knots
Complement: 1,880
Armament: Nine 16" guns; twenty 5" guns; sixteen 1.1" machine guns; twelve .50-cal machine guns (refit to much better AA in 1942)
Armor -
Armor Belt: 12 - 6in / 304 - 152mm, sloped 15°
Deck: 4.1 - 3.6in / 104 - 91mm
Barbettes: 16 - 14.7in / 406 - 373mm
Gunhouses: 16 - 9.8in / 406 - 24.9mm
Conning Tower: 16 - 14.7in / 406 - 373mm

USS South Dakota (BB57)
Displacement: 35,000 tons
Length: 680'10"
Beam: 108'2"
Draft: 36'4"
Speed: 27.8 knots
Complement: 2,354
Armament: Nine 16" guns; sixteen 5" guns; twelve 1.1 inch; twelve .50-cal machine guns. (refit to much better AA in 1942)
Armor -
Belt: 12.2 - 1in / 310 - 25mm, sloped 19°, attaching to underwater protection
Deck: 5.3 - 5in / 135 - 127mm
Barbettes: 17.3 - 11.5in / 440 - 292mm
Gunhouses: 18 - 9.5in / 457 - 241mm
Conning Tower: 15 - 7.25in / 380 - 184mm

Even so, it's better than the Bismark.

No ship had immunity to 16 inch fire. Only the turret faces of the Yamato could withstand a 16/55 shell, theoretically.

=S=

Lunatic
 
The Royal Navys focus was on the Med and Atlantic, rather than the Pacific.

And yes, look up the carrier. Most of the RN carriers were sunk or badly damaged by June 1942, I want to know which one it was. And what could a carrier with Swordfish and, if lucky, Sea Hurricanes do in Midway? Provide a target?
 
thats a big part of the reason our carrier born aircraft weren't as good as the americans, because they didn't have to be, they were very unlikely to run into a german carrier in the middle of the atlantic :lol:
 
And that's part of the reason the IJN ran the RN out of the Indian Ocean Lanc.

And providing a target wouldn't have been so bad. Maybe the Yorktown would have survived the battle then.
 
plan_D said:
The Royal Navys focus was on the Med and Atlantic, rather than the Pacific.

And yes, look up the carrier. Most of the RN carriers were sunk or badly damaged by June 1942, I want to know which one it was. And what could a carrier with Swordfish and, if lucky, Sea Hurricanes do in Midway? Provide a target?

I cannot find the info on the denied request to the British, I didn't annotate the link :oops:

However, a little research shows that both the HMS Illustrious and Indomitable were in position near Madagascar in 1942, which the British had taken from the Vichy in May.

I suppose you are correct. British naval aircraft of 1942 probably would not have been of much use at Midway, but who can tell. Also there were support ships that were sorely needed, or at least so it was thought at that time (it turned out that BB's were of little real use by that point as we all know).

=S=

Lunatic
 
The IJN didn't run the Royal Navy out of the Indian ocean. Nagumo got bored and went to bother the USN some more. The British aren't going to waste lives of their own people for American lives. America wouldn't do the same.
 
plan_D said:
The IJN didn't run the Royal Navy out of the Indian ocean. Nagumo got bored and went to bother the USN some more. The British aren't going to waste lives of their own people for American lives. America wouldn't do the same.

Where did I say the RN was run out of the Indian ocean?

Tell that to the US merchant marines. Or the families of Americans who died on the beaches of Normandy. Or those who died in France in WWI.
 
Yes, I was responding to LG.

And your brain is severely muddled, RG. Those American men that laid down their lives in World War 2 did not do so knowing they were just targets to waste ammo on like a RN Carrier crew would be in Midway!
I have NO idea where you got the stupid idea that Europeans, more importantly the British, aren't grateful but you better start to rethink because the British are extremely grateful of the US aid and help during both world wars! What is your problem, huh!?
 
The comment about using a RN carrier to save the Yorktown was a joke. I should have added a smilie to clear it up but just didn't feel like it for some reason.

I don't think the presence of a RN carrier at Midway would have meant much anway. As poorly as the TBDs and TBFs faired, unescorted Stringbags would have been even worse.
 
Okay. See, a man with reason. :thumbup:

Although, the IJN might have noticed it was a British carrier and laughed. Knowing that it only had Swordfish they might have left it, then cried when SOMEHOW 20 unescorted Swordfish slammed torps into their hull.
 
the swordfish's low speed was actually one of it's biggest assests :lol: it made it extremely had for attacking fighter pilots to shoot at because they closed in so quickly, i read in a book of how some FW-190s were flying escort for a ship attacked by swordfish, with their gear and flaps down at their slowest speed before stalling pretty much they were still to quick :lol:



RG_Lunatic said:
plan_D said:
The IJN didn't run the Royal Navy out of the Indian ocean. Nagumo got bored and went to bother the USN some more. The British aren't going to waste lives of their own people for American lives. America wouldn't do the same.

Where did I say the RN was run out of the Indian ocean?

Tell that to the US merchant marines. Or the families of Americans who died on the beaches of Normandy. Or those who died in France in WWI.

so you think that the americans fighting then were only doing it for us?? it was just a favour to help us out, as such we, and the rest of the world it would seem, owe you big time?? sorry, just checking i got that right because i always thought it was to otherthrow the nazi occupation and to beat back the japs............
 
Good point there, lanc. Well done...
 
Ah, did that other plan_D twat come in again?
 

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