the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
they wouldn't do anything anything unless they were specially designed??
Which aircraft logged the.....
- Thread starter (G/C) Lionel Mandrake
- Start date
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cheddar cheese
Major General
Ok then...3000lbs? I dont know what the Marauder could carry so im making legible gusses for its type...
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
thing is most bombs would stand a chance against 15ft of reinforced concrete...............
cheddar cheese
Major General
Maybe they kamikazed it 
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
The Marauder could carry a 2000lb bomb and that was what was used on the majority of raids against the U-boat pens.
evangilder
"Shooter"
I did find this, but it is talking about the B-17 and B-24:
The AAF's strategic bombardment of enemy ports and harbors also contributed to the destruction of the German U-boat fleet, although such operations were not part of the official Antisubmarine Command. From October 1942 through July 1943, U.S. strategic forces bombed German submarine pens in France with little effect. From March 1944 to April 1945, they proved far more successful in destroying U-boats anchored in harbors on the Mediterranean, North, and Baltic Seas.
After the fall of France in 1940, Germany built facilities at five ports--Brest, Lorient, St. Nazaire, La Pallice (or La Rochelle), and Bordeaux--to accommodate its submarine fleet. U-boats returning to port were serviced within bombproof concrete pens. The surrounding towns provided workers, hotels, and recreation for the crews. Until the Allied landing on the continent in 1944, those facilities berthed most of the U-boat fleet.
In early 1942, when the Allies gave top priority to the war against the German submarines, they targeted the submarine manufacturing plants in Germany and the submarine pens in France for strategic bombardment. A successful intensive bombing effort would decrease the production rate for submarines, reduce the number of U-boats at sea, and disrupt the refitting of operational submarines. In a directive issued on October 20, the Allied commander-in-chief, Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, gave the submarine pens and production facilites first and second priority, respectively. Over the next ten months, the Eighth Air Force, the AAF's strategic bombing organization in Great Britain, concentrated on bombing submarine bases in France.
Ninety bombers--B-17s and B-24s--attacked the U-boat base at Lorient on October 21. Because of bad weather, only fifteen aircraft managed to drop thirty high-explosive, one-ton bombs. Five bombs reportedly hit the submarine pen, but failed to penetrate its reinforced concrete. The rest fell in the general area, damaging two submarines not in the pen and destroying several buildings, docks, and other facilities. The raid inflicted about 150 civilian casualties, mostly among German workers. The AAF bombers encountered very little antiaircraft fire, but lost three aircraft to enemy fighters.
The Lorient mission foreshadowed the difficulties that the Eighth Air Force would have in attacking submarine pens. Protecting not only the submarines but most necessary repair and maintenance facilities, the pens were virtually impervious to all but the heaviest bombs. Destroying nearby structures had little effect on the enemy's ability to
refit operational submarines. Unfortunately, the AAF raids caused only some temporary dislocations and harassed the enemy by destroying auxiliary facilities and neighboring railway yards. Even the final AAF raid by 158 heavy bombers against the St. Nazaire submarine pens on June 28, 1943, failed to yield significant results. U-boat operation continued from the French ports as Allied forces overran France. Four months after D-Day, on September 23, 1944, the last U-boat sailed from St. Nazaire and marked the end of German operations from protected submarine pens.
The AAF's strategic bombardment of enemy ports and harbors also contributed to the destruction of the German U-boat fleet, although such operations were not part of the official Antisubmarine Command. From October 1942 through July 1943, U.S. strategic forces bombed German submarine pens in France with little effect. From March 1944 to April 1945, they proved far more successful in destroying U-boats anchored in harbors on the Mediterranean, North, and Baltic Seas.
After the fall of France in 1940, Germany built facilities at five ports--Brest, Lorient, St. Nazaire, La Pallice (or La Rochelle), and Bordeaux--to accommodate its submarine fleet. U-boats returning to port were serviced within bombproof concrete pens. The surrounding towns provided workers, hotels, and recreation for the crews. Until the Allied landing on the continent in 1944, those facilities berthed most of the U-boat fleet.
In early 1942, when the Allies gave top priority to the war against the German submarines, they targeted the submarine manufacturing plants in Germany and the submarine pens in France for strategic bombardment. A successful intensive bombing effort would decrease the production rate for submarines, reduce the number of U-boats at sea, and disrupt the refitting of operational submarines. In a directive issued on October 20, the Allied commander-in-chief, Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, gave the submarine pens and production facilites first and second priority, respectively. Over the next ten months, the Eighth Air Force, the AAF's strategic bombing organization in Great Britain, concentrated on bombing submarine bases in France.
Ninety bombers--B-17s and B-24s--attacked the U-boat base at Lorient on October 21. Because of bad weather, only fifteen aircraft managed to drop thirty high-explosive, one-ton bombs. Five bombs reportedly hit the submarine pen, but failed to penetrate its reinforced concrete. The rest fell in the general area, damaging two submarines not in the pen and destroying several buildings, docks, and other facilities. The raid inflicted about 150 civilian casualties, mostly among German workers. The AAF bombers encountered very little antiaircraft fire, but lost three aircraft to enemy fighters.
The Lorient mission foreshadowed the difficulties that the Eighth Air Force would have in attacking submarine pens. Protecting not only the submarines but most necessary repair and maintenance facilities, the pens were virtually impervious to all but the heaviest bombs. Destroying nearby structures had little effect on the enemy's ability to
refit operational submarines. Unfortunately, the AAF raids caused only some temporary dislocations and harassed the enemy by destroying auxiliary facilities and neighboring railway yards. Even the final AAF raid by 158 heavy bombers against the St. Nazaire submarine pens on June 28, 1943, failed to yield significant results. U-boat operation continued from the French ports as Allied forces overran France. Four months after D-Day, on September 23, 1944, the last U-boat sailed from St. Nazaire and marked the end of German operations from protected submarine pens.
St. Nazaire dry docks got blown to pieces by Royal Commandos in 1942. I don't think they touched the Sub-pens though but it stopped the Tirpitz leaving Norway. St. Nazaire was the only place big enough to accomadate the Tirpitz on the Altantic ocean. It wasn't repaired until 1946.
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
In retrospect (and certainly taking NOTHING away from the bravery of the Commonwealth commandoes), it probably would have been more effective to destroy the U-Boat pens.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hmmm....
For bomber/attack planes I'd probably have to go with the IL2, ~36000 produced and they fought throughout the war. Often they flew multiple sorties in a single day.
For fighers I'd have to go with the Bf109, ~33000 produced and again, they fought through the entire war often flying multiple sorties per day.
For heavy bombers, it is probably the B-17 which flew 291,508 combat sorties.
=S=
Lunatic
For bomber/attack planes I'd probably have to go with the IL2, ~36000 produced and they fought throughout the war. Often they flew multiple sorties in a single day.
For fighers I'd have to go with the Bf109, ~33000 produced and again, they fought through the entire war often flying multiple sorties per day.
For heavy bombers, it is probably the B-17 which flew 291,508 combat sorties.
=S=
Lunatic
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
as it was it was a the tallboy that destroyed both u-boat pens and the tirpitz
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
I am sure they would have. I was just pointing out that the U-boats were actually a much greater menance than the Tirpitz. The Tirpitz was something of a White Elephant that Hitler was unwilling to risk and the RN was unwilling to ignore.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
yes but we didn't know hitler wasn't willing to risk her, as long as she was afloat, she was a threat, her destruction would change the naval situation all over the world, even in the PTO..............
A
Anonymous
Guest
Had the Tirpitz been harrassing convoys in 1942, the USA would have sent the USS Washington or another SD class BB (or maybe two) to support the British in sinking her and it would all have been over in a matter of a few weeks.
=S=
Lunatic
=S=
Lunatic
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
Or even a single Carrier. The Atlantic fleet maintained a minimum of 2-3 carriers during that point in the war. The Wasp and her airwing would have easily handled the Tirpitz.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Lightning Guy said:
That is true!
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
but we could have stopped her if she had sailed out, we would have had the first attempt, and if that's the case with the american situation, where were you with the Bismark??
A
Anonymous
Guest
the lancaster kicks ass said:
??? where were you with the Yamato or the rest of the Japanese fleet?
I mean, I usually try to avoid such "country bashing", but since you brought it up, what about the British refusal when asked to deploy their carrier to help the USA at Midway?
Lunatic
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
yes but this different and that's a different topic, they're saying that if the tirpiz had sailed into the atlantic it'd be the americans that had the power to stop it, i'm saying we would have had the first shot, and due to the american's confidence and cirtainty that they'd go for her, i asked where were they when we were attacking the bismark?? but yes i know that was earlier in the war...........
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