Which was harder to shoot down, a P-47D or a FW 190A?

Which plane was the hardest to shoot down?


  • Total voters
    92

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

I have experience with FMJ 8mm Mauser rounds shot through junkyard car fenders. The hole left is smaller than a dime. The tracer aspect makes no difference in entrance hole.

tom

Who ever talked about tracer rounds ? I've shot plenty 8mm FMJ rounds as-well, tracers and AP rounds alike. However we're talking about incendiary rounds here Tom, NOT tracers! The incendiary round have s small explosive filler in the nose, which on impact explodes and creates a big flash, causing more surface damage and allowing the pilot to better observe hits.
 
Johnson1comp.jpg


Johnson2comp.jpg


The much smaller holes of the 7.92mm rounds are visible in stark contrast to 20mm damage. (small peppering of holes below the canopy)

When looking at the close up I don't see that much peppering KK, I only see one possible 7.92mm hole, and then damage caused by 20mm fire.

Seems like a 20mm HE round hit one of the canopy struts, tearing it apart, and then the tip continued through the fuselage.

rsj5uz7.jpg



On the below picture of the right side I can see some obvious 7.92mm damage though, one hit right above the "HV" designation and one hit on the lower right corner of the vertical stabilizer:

rsj4hu9.jpg
 
You're right, I think there might be some 7.92mm hits in a more "peppered" fassion on the pic of the tail damage.
 

Attachments

  • Johnson1comp.jpg
    Johnson1comp.jpg
    23.6 KB · Views: 119
I saw a FW190 at the NASM (at least I think it was there). It is roughly the same size as the other European fighters of that time (Spit, ME109, Hurricane, ect).

Have also seen the P47 over at the Reading Airshow.

Having seen them both, the size differential is incredible. The P47 is really huge. Looks like it is about 2x the size of standard European fighters. You really have to see it to believe it.

Not sure how it affects the discussion but I thought I'd throw that in there.
 
Who ever talked about tracer rounds ? I've shot plenty 8mm FMJ rounds as-well, tracers and AP rounds alike. However we're talking about incendiary rounds here Tom, NOT tracers! The incendiary round have s small explosive filler in the nose, which on impact explodes and creates a big flash, causing more surface damage and allowing the pilot to better observe hits.

Sorry, Soren, my mistake.

tom
 
well KK although Tony has immense resources I do not agree that in 1940-43 that the M round was standard equipment in the MG FF. through interviews of day/night fighter pilots not one has said when asked about the Minen rounds if they had them available before 1944...........so ......... ? obviously it was called something else just HE and HEI, yellow bodied
 
Are there more pictures of Johnson's fighter? Because I can see only 1 of the 21 cannon hits and it'd be very useful to know where the other 20 went.

Btw: He was lucky he had a Razorback!
 
Here is a thought experiment. Let's say that Meyer's and Johnson's positions were reversed. How would Meyer's FW-190 have faired had Johnson's P-47 had raked him time and again with only 2 of Johnson's .50 machine guns working? Or, to be fair, with 2 .30 machine guns under the same circumstances. How would the FW-190 have held up with a similar amount of 20mm hits?

tom
 
... now include that the Fw is about half the size and more maneouvarable, how many 20mm would've hit him in the first place?
 
Johnson got hit with the 20mm when jumped while in formation. So while the size would matter, maneuverability would not in this circumstance.

P-47 Thunderbolt: Aviation Darwinism - The Cradle of Aviation Museum - The Cradle of Aviation Museum
Refusing to break formation (after being chewed out for doing just that when he gained his first victory) Johnson repeatedly tried to warn his Group of attacking Fw 190's. For some reason, no one heard his frantic radio calls. Johnson's fighter was clobbered by German 20mm cannon shells.
 
... now include that the Fw is about half the size and more maneouvarable, how many 20mm would've hit him in the first place?

For my thought experiment we are considering that the FW-190 is flying straight and level as Johnson's was and has already incurred similar damage.

tom
 
Are there more pictures of Johnson's fighter? Because I can see only 1 of the 21 cannon hits and it'd be very useful to know where the other 20 went.

Btw: He was lucky he had a Razorback!

I'm fairly certain they mistakingly counted quite a few holes caused by the very same rounds, cause it definitely doesn't look like it was hit by 21 20mm rounds.

A single hit from a 20mm HE round can cause a lot of shrapnel damage, as evident by looking at the cockpit where one round most likely both mangled the struts while the tip of it continued through the fuselage. (Explaining the rectangular hole)

I bet a LOT of shrapnel was generated when he was first hit in the engine, the 20mm projectiles hammering into the engine block and exploding into large flat pieces causing a lot of holes in the engine shield cover.

Seems like a single 20mm HE hit to the tail rudder as-well.
 
There's a story about Davy Crockett, who did a little shooting contest against another fella. They both fired two shots at marks on trees. The other fellas bullet holes were about an inch apart, but Davy had only one bullet hole on his mark, it looked like one shot missed the tree completely. So he pulled out his knife, dug into the tree, and sure enough there were two bullets in the same hole.
 
Hello
a bit off topic but those who has access to Sakaida's Genda's Blade can look on page 137 and see what Corsair could take and be still able to be flown home.

Juha
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back