Why American aces had lower scores than anybody else

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

Thumpalumpacus said:
... and 15 million pair of boots ... and oil ... and steel ... and P-39s ...

,,, but let's face it, the Russians did not only a lot of the dying, but a lot of the killing, against Germans. Something like 60% of all Wehrmacht KIA were suffered on the Eastern front.
Click to expand...
And a lot of those were between 1945 and '55.
 
dedalos said:
It was incredible the industrial capacity of the america. Reading the given statistics above, its clear that Lw despite the badly outperformed main types of fighters, and the overall lower order of battle aircraft numbers, and its broken communications, and the training problems, did cause important casualties to the american air force. Casualties that ,most propably, no other nation than america could sustain. Or even all the others alleid countries put together. Not only in materials but aircrew as well. Each heavy bomber loss it was 10 men loss!
In my opinion ww2 was won by america. Period.
Click to expand...
As an American, and a fairly objective historian regarding WWII, I would tone that summary contriution to a lower category, namely 'America was Essential to Allied victory.

Beyond that, an argument could be made that there was a solid chance that Commonwealth and Russia could have prevailed against Germany - first - so long as America continued lend Lease to include Oil/Refined products, aircraft and vehicles. That said, German U-Boats may have prevailed over shipping from US, absent US mobilization. Additionally, IMO, Japan would have driven the RN out of the Pacific - making it very difficult to provide any semblance of logistical support to India or SE Asia.

As for Pacific, absent pissing us off on December 7th and steering clear of US interests in Phillipines, Japan may have secured vital resource acquisitions to make it very difficult to outright defeat Japan, absent US entrance into the war.

The facts are that Russia and the Commonwealth collectively stopped Germany expansion, prevented acquisition of essential vital Energy resources, and drained monumental military assets from Germany in the process - before we effectively engaged anywhere on the ground.

IMO, with clear credit to Commonwealth forces in India, Australia and New Zealand providin crucial actions New Guinea and Solomons during a critical period in 1942, America WAS the overwhelming factor in the Pacific.

In Europe, the accolades are harder to toss exclusively to the title "Winner of WWII", to put it mildly. IMO, you could say that America ultimately won the Air War Oscar with a cast of Best Supporting Actors - but not the Ground war. We were a major Player, only. Ditto for the Battle of the Atlantic.
 
drgondog said:
As an American, and a fairly objective historian regarding WWII, I would tone that summary contriution to a lower category, namely 'America was Essential to Allied victory.

Beyond that, an argument could be made that there was a solid chance that Commonwealth and Russia could have prevailed against Germany - first - so long as America continued lend Lease to include Oil/Refined products, aircraft and vehicles. That said, German U-Boats may have prevailed over shipping from US, absent US mobilization. Additionally, IMO, Japan would have driven the RN out of the Pacific - making it very difficult to provide any semblance of logistical support to India or SE Asia.

As for Pacific, absent pissing us off on December 7th and steering clear of US interests in Phillipines, Japan may have secured vital resource acquisitions to make it very difficult to outright defeat Japan, absent US entrance into the war.

The facts are that Russia and the Commonwealth collectively stopped Germany expansion, prevented acquisition of essential vital Energy resources, and drained monumental military assets from Germany in the process - before we effectively engaged anywhere on the ground.

IMO, with clear credit to Commonwealth forces in India, Australia and New Zealand providin crucial actions New Guinea and Solomons during a critical period in 1942, America WAS the overwhelming factor in the Pacific.

In Europe, the accolades are harder to toss exclusively to the title "Winner of WWII", to put it mildly. IMO, you could say that America ultimately won the Air War Oscar with a cast of Best Supporting Actors - but not the Ground war. We were a major Player, only. Ditto for the Battle of the Atlantic.
Click to expand...
I did not mean the American soldiers won alone the war . All soldiers from all countries fought bravely. But it was not bravery or brilliant generals that decided the war
It was numbers. Numbers of tanks,aircraft, destroyers,. Food, fuel ,raw materials
And all the other allied countries fought with American weapon systems, or systems that were constructed using American raw materials. They were eating American food. And were standing on American shoes
The American daylight bomber offensive was absolutely impossible for any other nation. Yet it was the only reason that the England did not face xxi u boats in early 1944 or jet fighters from late 1943 and her population did not starve
Or that the Soviets only faced 1500 tigers and 6000 panthers instead 3-4 times that numbers
Soviet air force in 1944 had to face only 3 German fighter wings.Jg51,jg52,jg54(minus iii/jg54!). And still had many problems. Imagine now if all luftwaffe , day and night,fighter and bomber units was deployed on the eastern front! Soviets could not even stop the raids from he177s , and it was only the lack of fuel (caused by the Americans) that stoped them
Who would check at the same time Japan?
All campaigns on all fronts,against the axis forces after 1941 were mostly based on the American factories
And we should not forget. America was neutral only in name , even before December 1941. Without America s desicive support , England would have lost control of the Atlantic routes.
And ,really, even if luftwaffe could shoot down 60 bombers on every mission America could built much more
German built ,if I remember correctly, about 27000 torpedoes . America built more ships!!! (Any kind and size, military vessels and merchants)From late 1943 were canceling orders for de s, they had ordered more than 1000!
Merlin was the best aero engine of the war , and it was an English design, so what? They had to ask America to help with their production!
 
dedalos said:
I did not mean the American soldiers won alone the war . All soldiers from all countries fought bravely. But it was not bravery or brilliant generals that decided the war
It was numbers. Numbers of tanks,aircraft, destroyers,. Food, fuel ,raw materials
And all the other allied countries fought with American weapon systems, or systems that were constructed using American raw materials. They were eating American food. And were standing on American shoes
The American daylight bomber offensive was absolutely impossible for any other nation. Yet it was the only reason that the England did not face xxi u boats in early 1944 or jet fighters from late 1943 and her population did not starve
Or that the Soviets only faced 1500 tigers and 6000 panthers instead 3-4 times that numbers
Soviet air force in 1944 had to face only 3 German fighter wings.Jg51,jg52,jg54(minus iii/jg54!). And still had many problems. Imagine now if all luftwaffe , day and night,fighter and bomber units was deployed on the eastern front! Soviets could not even stop the raids from he177s , and it was only the lack of fuel (caused by the Americans) that stoped them
Who would check at the same time Japan?
All campaigns on all fronts,against the axis forces after 1941 were mostly based on the American factories
And we should not forget. America was neutral only in name , even before December 1941. Without America s desicive support , England would have lost control of the Atlantic routes.
And ,really, even if luftwaffe could shoot down 60 bombers on every mission America could built much more
German built ,if I remember correctly, about 27000 torpedoes . America built more ships!!! (Any kind and size, military vessels and merchants)From late 1943 were canceling orders for de s, they had ordered more than 1000!
Merlin was the best aero engine of the war , and it was an English design, so what? They had to ask America to help with their production!
Click to expand...

I say again... :facepalm:
 
dedalos said:
I did not mean the American soldiers won alone the war . All soldiers from all countries fought bravely. But it was not bravery or brilliant generals that decided the war
It was numbers. Numbers of tanks,aircraft, destroyers,. Food, fuel ,raw materials
And all the other allied countries fought with American weapon systems, or systems that were constructed using American raw materials. They were eating American food. And were standing on American shoes
The American daylight bomber offensive was absolutely impossible for any other nation. Yet it was the only reason that the England did not face xxi u boats in early 1944 or jet fighters from late 1943 and her population did not starve
Or that the Soviets only faced 1500 tigers and 6000 panthers instead 3-4 times that numbers
Soviet air force in 1944 had to face only 3 German fighter wings.Jg51,jg52,jg54(minus iii/jg54!). And still had many problems. Imagine now if all luftwaffe , day and night,fighter and bomber units was deployed on the eastern front! Soviets could not even stop the raids from he177s , and it was only the lack of fuel (caused by the Americans) that stoped them
Who would check at the same time Japan?
All campaigns on all fronts,against the axis forces after 1941 were mostly based on the American factories
And we should not forget. America was neutral only in name , even before December 1941. Without America s desicive support , England would have lost control of the Atlantic routes.
And ,really, even if luftwaffe could shoot down 60 bombers on every mission America could built much more
German built ,if I remember correctly, about 27000 torpedoes . America built more ships!!! (Any kind and size, military vessels and merchants)From late 1943 were canceling orders for de s, they had ordered more than 1000!
Merlin was the best aero engine of the war , and it was an English design, so what? They had to ask America to help with their production!
Click to expand...
Dear me, in terms of this discussion "America" and "England" dont figure at all. North America is a continent, the Americas are two continents. North America contains Canada the USA and Mexico. England ceased to be a sovereign state in 1707 with the Act of Union. This is not semantics or pedantry, talking of "England" is not only ignorant it is insulting to all those who werent English but who fought for the commonwealth military. Without USA involvement the war in Europe would have continued, it may have come to a stalemate or there may have been a "winner" if that is possible with so many millions dead. The USA, as has been said already was a major contributor to the war they were in. If the UK was unable or unwilling to fight in 1940 and Russia capitulated in 1941 the USA has a much different war to win.
 
I now get what D dedalos was saying, that American economic strength enabled the Allies to pull through, and in that sense, yes, it was our crucial contribution. I misread his point in a manner of sorts. T-34s were often built with imported American steel, planes were fueled often by American avgas of all grades, etc. This is true.

But I think the Germans lost the war once they were turned back at Moscow.
 
pbehn said:
Dear me, in terms of this discussion "America" and "England" dont figure at all. North America is a continent, the Americas are two continents. North America contains Canada the USA and Mexico. England ceased to be a sovereign state in 1707 with the Act of Union. This is not semantics or pedantry, talking of "England" is not only ignorant it is insulting to all those who werent English but who fought for the commonwealth military. Without USA involvement the war in Europe would have continued, it may have come to a stalemate or there may have been a "winner" if that is possible with so many millions dead. The USA, as has been said already was a major contributor to the war they were in. If the UK was unable or unwilling to fight in 1940 and Russia capitulated in 1941 the USA has a much different war to win.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree
, America would have a different war to win, but eventually,still,would win, even if it would need atomic weapons.
Without America the rest of the allied powers, against Germany and Japan, the best scenario would be a draw
I am aware of the geography of the American continent. However on major international affairs, the entire continent follows the policy of the dominant country without question. This is a fact at least since the American president Monroe. Would ever Canada dare to follow a different route on major issues than USA? Would have suffered the fate of the Confederate States of America.
On UK case England is also the dominant part of the union. It was never a union of equality. I would say ,that actually it was a polite way to pass the de facto occupation of Scotland,Ireland and Wels without further revolutions and independence wars. Look at the Brexit case. Scotland wanted to remain in EU. England wanted the Brexit. Guess what happened. So ,in reality , it was , and still is England not UK.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Similar threads

D
About strafing Aces
Replies
3
Views
708
eagledad
E
T
Why were U.S. pursuit fighters at the start of WW2 of lower performance than European fighters?
4 5 6
Replies
104
Views
7K
GrauGeist
GrauGeist
H
Why was the Barracuda so much slower than the Avenger?
3 4 5
Replies
92
Views
6K
EwenS
E
S
Why no Fw 190H but the Ta 152H?
2 3
Replies
54
Views
2K
z42
Z
A
Why no heavier RAF machine gun calibres?
2 3
Replies
49
Views
2K
Shortround6
S
Back