Worst aircraft of WW2?

[KraziKanuK]

I see that myth that the Russians used the P-39 as an a2g ac is still going. Sure it did some but that was not its primary role.

Most Western writers claim that the Russians utilized the P-39 primarily in the ground attack role. Though it was competent in this role, that was not the primary mission of Soviet Airacobra pilots. The priorities of the P-39 flyers (and Soviet fighters in general) were:

Protect ground units from enemy aircraft
Escort bombers
Suppress AAA in the area of bombers
Reconnaissance
Free hunt
Attack soft targets (i.e. troops, convoys, supply dumps, railroads, airfields, barges or other small naval craft)
Protect high-value friendly targets (i.e. bridges, amphibious landing forces, reserves, command and control, major cities, etc).

http://www.chuckhawks.com/airacobra_iron_dog.htm

The 37mm M4 was not a great a2g weapon.

 

[evangilder]

I didn't see anyone state that air to ground was it's primary mission. In fact, the last several posts were talking about air to air kills and aces.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I've read if placed in an air-to-air role, the P-400 (export version of the P-39) was a better aircraft. Instead of the 37mm it had a 20mm in the nose.

 

[CurzonDax]

When I was a kid, it was my fav plane because I thought they looked so futuristic. But if memory serves me right the 400 was used in a A2G role by the USAAF especially on the 'Canal. It could make Japanese tanks inot sushi.

:{)

 

[FLYBOYJ]

When I was a kid, it was my fav plane because I thought they looked so futuristic. But if memory serves me right the 400 was used in a A2G role by the USAAF especially on the 'Canal. It could make Japanese tanks inot sushi.

:{)

Yep - some AAF guys call them "Klunkers," but others did well with them.

Here's a good P-39/ P-400 site

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/05/stuff_eng_profile_p39.htm

 

[The Nerd]

well, thanks for setting me strait on that, mow Ill never refer to it as that bad of plane.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

well, thanks for setting me strait on that, mow Ill never refer to it as that bad of plane.

No sweat! Call it a Klunker, but not crud!

 

[Smokey]

According to this website:

The most serious change, however, was the elimination of the turbosupercharger, and its replacement by a single-stage geared supercharger. This change was a result of a shift in philosophy on the part of the USAAC. The USAAC believed that the widths of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans made the USA virtually immune from high-altitude attack by enemy bombers. Therefore, the development of high-altitude interceptors was curtailed in favor of strike fighters optimized for low-level close support. The 1150 hp V-1710-17 (E2) of the XP-39 was replaced by a V-1710-37 (E5) engine rated at an altitude of 13,300 feet. The carburetor air intake was mounted in a dorsal position just behind the cockpit, where it was to remain throughout the Airacobra production run.

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p39_1.html

Also this website:

http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/XP-39.html

How America's Best Pre-War Single Engine Fighter
Was Ruined By The Air Corps

Bell XP-39

Presumably an XP-39B

http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/les_collections/phototheque/dig_image.cfm?Lang=f&id=24835

http://www.aerofiles.com/_bell.html

Another mid engined fighter of the 1930s:

Koolhoven F.K.55
High performance fighter with many innovations, 1936

http://www.koolhoven.com/history/airplanes/koolhoven/

 

[Nonskimmer]

I see that myth that the Russians used the P-39 as an a2g ac is still going. Sure it did some but that was not its primary role.

Agreed, it was never it's primary role. In fact, the link I posted earlier attempts to dispel that myth as well.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

This is the way I always looked at the P-39. It was a decent aircraft but she was a step behind the Spitfire, Bf-109, Fw-190 and P-51. Sure at the hands of an experienced pilot she could get the job done. She was deffinatly in my opinion better suited for ground attack than as a fighter. Plus as stated before I would not like to sit on a drive shaft!

 

[plan_D]

It's my understanding the myth came from a bad translation. What was translated as "Support of ground forces" was taken to mean direct close air support (ground attack) - however that has been updated; in the Russian system "support of ground forces" means to secure air superiority and to halt any enemy air attacks on the ground forces.

 

[102first_hussars]

I think If the P-39 was given a more powerfull engine and better armament it would have had a much better service record in my opinion.

 

[Gnomey]

P-63...

 

[Hellbird]

p-39

 

[FLYBOYJ]

This is the way I always looked at the P-39. It was a decent aircraft but she was a step behind the Spitfire, Bf-109, Fw-190 and P-51. Sure at the hands of an experienced pilot she could get the job done. She was deffinatly in my opinion better suited for ground attack than as a fighter. Plus as stated before I would not like to sit on a drive shaft!

Agree - I put the P-63 about a half of step behind the Mustang, Later Spitfire Models and early Me-109G models...

 

[HealzDevo]

I still reckon that the Martin Mariner was one of the worst aircraft of WW2. It earned from the crews that flew it the nickname of the 'Flying Gas Can' for its habit of exploding in mid-air!!! A famous case was that a squadron of fighters went missing in the Bermuda Triangle shortly after the War. A Martin Mariner was sent to find them but a bright explosion was seen- presumeably the Martin Mariner exploding?
There is also the He-177 Grief on the German side which had a habit of catching fire and burning. Germany's own aircrews nicknamed it the 'Flying Coffin' for goodness sakes. If the aircrews that operate such aircraft give them such uncomplementary nicknames doesn't that put them in the running for the Worst Aircraft of WW2. Don't these aircrews have enough to worry about without wondering whether they are going to be burnt to death or blown up by faults in the aircraft? These two are worthy nominations for Worst Aircraft of WW2. They may have done the job, but they certainly wouldn't have done anything for the aircrews' peace of mind.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I still reckon that the Martin Mariner was one of the worst aircraft of WW2. It earned from the crews that flew it the nickname of the 'Flying Gas Can' for its habit of exploding in mid-air!!! A famous case was that a squadron of fighters went missing in the Bermuda Triangle shortly after the War. A Martin Mariner was sent to find them but a bright explosion was seen- presumeably the Martin Mariner exploding?

Now that I disagree with!!! I knew many "ole timers" who flew the Mariner During and after WW2. Not the most endearing patrol plane in the world, the "Pig Boat" served faithfully until Viet Nam in its later version, the Marlin. I don't know where you heard of it being a flying gas can, but I could tell you many of the crews I met actually preferred the Mariner/ Marlin over the P-2...

As far as the Bermuda Triangle story, it was never substantiated what happened to any of the aircraft lost that day including the Mariner.

The Mariner provided much of the ASW work during the Korean War and I even heard stories of several sinking submarines during the clandestine post Korean War period...

There were close to 1800 Mariners built from the PBM-1 through the much Improved PBM-5 and finally the P5M-1 Marlin which was retired from USN service in 1968 and was the US Navy's last seaplane.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I actually just saw a documentary on that mission over the Bemuda Triangle, and they beleive that the lead planes navigational equipment was faulty and even though the rest of the flight told him so, the "experienced" pilot he was, would not listen to the trainees. They ran out of gas and crashed in bad weather.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I worked with several people who flew Mariners during WW2 and into the Korean War. The earlier -3s were a bit underpowered. It was the -5 that was the real improvement and the Marlin was probably the zenith of ASW flying boats until the Japanese deployed their Shin Meiwa PS-1 which was actually based on the Mariner/ Marlin. HealzDevo, I'd like to see where you got this story that the Mariner was a flying gas can, be rest assured if it was the VP community would of seen that it was immediately withdrawn...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I never said it was flying gas can. I actually like the plane, even though I believe he is correct that one did not return when it was sent out to find the missing pilots from the "Ghost Squadron" in the Bermuda Traingle.