the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
thanks for the confirmation Erich! try doing that in a B-17.......
WW2 Plane of the year
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Erich
the old Sage
you can't and under battle conditions you would not want to. I have German gun cam footage of a distressed B-17 that zoomed up and in a half arc before it fell apart obviously with it's internals gutted by heavy German rounds
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
i believe if properly piloted depending on how much fuel and its load whether carrying bombs passengers or cargo any ac would loop safely though its not reccommended including the lanc a loop does not pull that many g's
Erich
the old Sage
sorry but my point was not too clear. given combat conditions and this is what I was striving for. tight boxes (pulks) of B-17's or B-24's the full on loop just isn't going to happen to evade attacking German fighters.
with the looseness of RAF heavy bomber formations and given the night time sky where not much is seen the loop could be done, preferrably with out a buddies a/c close by. Granted my example and others sent to me were individual cases when the Lancaster and they were ID'd as Lancs were followed, broken away presumably from their plan of route to or away from the German target.
with the looseness of RAF heavy bomber formations and given the night time sky where not much is seen the loop could be done, preferrably with out a buddies a/c close by. Granted my example and others sent to me were individual cases when the Lancaster and they were ID'd as Lancs were followed, broken away presumably from their plan of route to or away from the German target.
helmitsmit
Airman 1st Class
Maybe then we should compare the Mossie and the Ju88 instead? Considering that they must has fought against each other at night, didn't they?
Lets just call the debate between the lanc and the B17 a draw.
Lets just call the debate between the lanc and the B17 a draw.
Erich
the old Sage
if you want to start a new thread go for it as I am in. Can give you a truck load of details on the Ju 88G variant nf but someone else will have to pull the info on the Mossie craft.
The Lanc and the B-17 issue is not a draw but served in different capacities in the air war over the Reich. Both were needed and although severe losses, provided themselves countless times on the many many missions performed. As we discussed already different tactics, formations and of course different countermeasures by Germany to suppress their numbers which is a book in itself.
guess we could get a couple of US bomber vets to discuss which was better the Fort or the Lib as well as RAF crewmen to discuss the Lanc vs. Halibag, but then where would that go.... ? Interesting reading it would be
The Lanc and the B-17 issue is not a draw but served in different capacities in the air war over the Reich. Both were needed and although severe losses, provided themselves countless times on the many many missions performed. As we discussed already different tactics, formations and of course different countermeasures by Germany to suppress their numbers which is a book in itself.
guess we could get a couple of US bomber vets to discuss which was better the Fort or the Lib as well as RAF crewmen to discuss the Lanc vs. Halibag, but then where would that go.... ? Interesting reading it would be
helmitsmit
Airman 1st Class
Good point about the Lanc v halibag and b17 vs liberator that would be interresting. I'll start that new spread see you there!
guess we could get a couple of US bomber vets to discuss which was better the Fort or the Lib as well as RAF crewmen to discuss the Lanc vs. Halibag, but then where would that go.... ? Interesting reading it would be[/quote]
On this note the overwheling opinion would probably be the Fort, even from British crews (that is after the got rid of thier Fortress IIs). I have seen interviews from the USN, USAAF, RAF, and even coastal command that thier lives were saved by the toughness of the Fort. In fact there are many vets that when flying commercial will only fly Boeing products (Flew in a Airbus product ONCE. I never was so happy to be on tierra firma.)
:{)
On this note the overwheling opinion would probably be the Fort, even from British crews (that is after the got rid of thier Fortress IIs). I have seen interviews from the USN, USAAF, RAF, and even coastal command that thier lives were saved by the toughness of the Fort. In fact there are many vets that when flying commercial will only fly Boeing products (Flew in a Airbus product ONCE. I never was so happy to be on tierra firma.)
:{)
Erich
the old Sage
You may find the Lib/Fort debate a little bit more on equal terms depending whom you interview. Considering the vets that flew a certain craft it will be a one-sided affair. both a/c were needed. the Fort bodily really wasn't stronger than the Lib during daylight missions during 1944 due to the ever strengthening of German arms munitions and tactics evolved
Erich said:
The problem with the Lib was not its structural strength but its placement of its tanks, on the top of the fuselage. I am sure we have seen the footage of the Lib becoming a comet as it catches fire and collapses on itself. A side note on this from what I have read from several sources the pilot was a Brig. Gen. Can some one confirm this?
:{)
mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
With regards to the Fort vs Lib question, the Lib carried more bombs/plane and for that, it wins
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
and if you ask a RAF coastal command crewman they'd proberly prefer the lib because of its range..........
mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
Also, at certi altitudes a Lib on 3 engines could pass a Fort on all 4
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
yes over the atlantic damage tollerance didn't matter so much, range did.........
mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
I'll agree with that, if you can't cover the convoy for long there's not much point in you being there
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
and you weren't exactly gonna meet many german fighters 
there may be the odd Ju-88 out there at times but the main source of damage was AA fire from ships...........
there may be the odd Ju-88 out there at times but the main source of damage was AA fire from ships...........
Good info about the Nacht Jaeger Erich.
