1/72 ProModeller B-17G "2nd Patches"

[Luftace43]

Thanks for the reply Terry!

What I have found in my digging is that interior green is generally incorrect for the pilot and nose crew areas. Dull dark green was the color specified for these forward areas, as well as the dorsal and ball turret interiors. Bulkheads, however were painted chromate green. There are always exceptions, and I also read that Douglas supposedly switched from DDG to interior green for whatever reason at a later point in production of b-17g aircraft. I cannot confirm when or if this change was made and at what block number this may have started at. Even though the aircraft I am building was built by Douglas, because I can't confirm the if and when of their change of paint colors, I have decided to go with DDG in the aforementioned crew areas. I am very leery of most pictures I have found of restored aircraft as it seems that many of them have been painted interior green when documents of the time and even extant original paint found on relics/unrestored components indicate otherwise.

For my interpretation of DDG, I used Model Master Acryl FS34092 Euro 1 Dark Green. I lightened this with a couple drops of white for "scale effect" and in hopes that it will show just a little better when everything is closed up. I may have lightened it too much though, I will consider darkening this color pending how it looks when I test fit everything closed up. Below is one of the discussions I read to determine my choice of colors. There are some nice pictures therein.

b-17 colors e f and g

 

[Crimea_River]

Stunning work for this scale.

 

[fubar57]

Lots happening in the week I was gone, great stuff Chad. A bit late maybe but with regards to the nose section, perhaps PM billrunnels He was a B-17 bombardier

 

[Gnomey]

Looks good so far!

 

[Luftace43]

Thank you guys!

Crimea_River
I really enjoy super detailing and pushing myself in this regard. I really like 1/48 scale for the size but due to very limited display space find myself building 1/72 more often usually. After this project though I am thinking a 1/48 subject will be in order. Everything will seem huge in comparison after having spent time in 1/72.

Thanks to the suggestion s of Terry and Geo, I have contacted Mr. Runnels with some questions and an invite to look in on this build. Will keep you guys posted as I learn more.

Chad

 

[Airframes]

Good stuff Chad. I'd agree about the DDG. Can't find it on my hard drive at the moment, but I took a shot through the open door and also into the nose of the B-17G in the American Museum at Duxford some time ago, and DDG was evident ( I tend to call all US interior colours Interior Green, which I realise is a mistake, there being at least four greens !).
I'd agree that maybe your interpretation is rather light, even for this smaller scale - perhaps add a touch of brown to give a more olive shade ?
You're doing a wonderful job on this, and you'd find the 1/48th scale kit a walk in the park compared to 1/72nd !!

 

[Luftace43]

Airframes
No worries Terry, trying to decipher what colors were where and what they looked like, especially in scale is a minefield for sure! Allied aircraft interiors is fairly new territory for me, Japanese aircraft usually being my primary area of study. I may give the area an olive or dark brown filter/wash with some oils, but the colors also appear a little "off" in the pictures because I digitally adjusted the color to try to show up the seatbelts better. Still, I think I may use the color strait from the jar in the cockpit since what I have read that 34092 is a close match, but DDG was slightly darker. Your insight is most appreciated with this and is certainly pushing me in the right direction to get this sorted as I go.

I heard back from Mr. Runnels. He confirmed that the colors in the nose as he remembers were dark green and also as mentioned earlier that there was no canvas installed either. Interestingly he also mentioned on his particular aircraft the cheek guns and their ammo boxes were not carried either to allow more space for he and the navigator to move about. I will have to check my references to see if I can see whether or not 2nd Patches carried her cheek guns. This was something that hadn't crossed my mind to look for, so I will look over the pictures I have to see if I can determine yay or nay.

More pictures soon guys, the nose is almost done and I am working on the cockpit now.

Chad

 

[Luftace43]

The adventure continues. Slowly.

Here are the side panels for the cockpit.

As seen in my previous post, these were made from styrene and bits of copper wire. The oxygen hoses are copper wire as well, smaller gauge wrapped around a slightly larger gauge. I painted everything with Aeromaster French tan. Various boxes were picked out in grimy black, neutral gray and flat black. The generator control box on the port side panel and the inclined panel at the front of the starboard panel were painted Euro 1 dark green. All detail areas were then dry brushed with light gray and touched up with their original colors where some of it got too heavy. Details were picked out with MM Acryl paints. I applied a black oil paint wash and wiped off the excess when dry. The hoses were painted chromate green then given a heavy black wash to darken the color. They were then dry brushed with yellow tinted white oil paint. I wanted to add some texture to the panels to give the illusion of subtle fabric wrinkles. For this I mixed up a pale yellow-green-gray color with oil paints and applied tiny streaks on the French tan panels. I blended these with a clean brush.

That's it for now guys.

Chad

 

[fubar57]

Sweet

 

[Airframes]

Excellent. If it look that good in a macro photo shot, it must look the canine accoutrements to the naked eye !!

 

[Luftace43]

Thank you guys! They do look better in person, as we know the camera shows more than we can see ourselves. Such as some green I see that got on one of the oxygen regulators, gotta go clean that up.

This may be a dumb question, but what color were the hand operated fire extinguishers mounted through out the aircraft on bulkheads? I can't seem to find any pictures of them and have seen them painted many different colors by other modeller. What is correct?

Chad

 

[Airframes]

I'm not certain about the colour of the fire extinguishers, but there's a good chance that American units were red.
During WW2, and for some time after, RAF fire extinguishers, of various types, were normally the bare metal, a brass colour, although by the end of the war, the 'emergency' colours were starting to be seen, with jettison handles and other 'emergency' equipment, such as axes, fire extinguishers etc, being painted red.
Other colours, more cautionary, such as handrails and the outlines of emergency exits etc, were yellow.
Standardisation didn't really happen until the mid 1960's, when the various types of fire extinguishers had an indentifying colour, eg, cream for foam, mid blue for dry powder, mid green for BCF etc etc., although even then, and still today, 'commercial' units could be stainless steel with a label of the appropriate colour - as much use as a chocolate tea pot when trying to find the right piece of equipment in a smoke and low light environment !

 

[Luftace43]

Thanks Terry, I was leaning towards red. If anything it will add a dash of color. I know the extinguishers we had on our Blackhawk helicopters when I was a crew chief were red, but that is 60+ years after ww2 and that is a lot of time for things to change of course. Red it is then.

Chad

 

[fubar57]

My Catalina said red. I'll go through my bomber books

EDIT: B-17E...

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From the B-17F Flight Manual...

 

[Luftace43]

Thanks Geo!

Found this listed on eBay. Does this seem like the correct type?

Seller's description:
"This offer is a tremendous find! I am selling genuine LUND, WWII military, vintage, National Labs, CO2 fire extinguisher (empty). This is the Model LUX, in good condition with the fiber spray horn. This is an all steel construction extinguisher with a solid brass head. Weighs approximately 10 pounds. National Labs approved genuine extinguisher. It may fit a multitude of WWII military vehicles. The approximate dimensions are 3-1/2" diameter and 17" height.Spray horn is 7-1/2" in length."

 

[fubar57]

Another...Fire Extinguisher, WWII Era Patent No.

 

[Luftace43]

Another...Fire Extinguisher, WWII Era Patent No.

Thanks!

 

[fubar57]

Same thing, different site...Fire Extinguisher, WWII Era Patent No. | Antiques for sale on Vista, CA Bookoo!

 

[Luftace43]

So maybe the larger ones were red and the smaller ones brass?

 

[fubar57]

Possible. I know this is only a model but supports your theory...