mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
Somebody find the men in white coats and quick
#1 American Killer, ETO???
- Thread starter lesofprimus
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,931
- Dec 20, 2003
which ones, i know most of them personally.........
mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
Anyway, back on topic. The No1 American killer in the ETO I would say would be a German fighter pilot, I'm not up on German pilots so I wouldn't know
Chocks away!
Senior Airman
Was Bartels killed?
Ok, here it goes:
On what could the most lethal single shot in the the entire ETO, the event happened on November 26, 1943 off Bougie (Algeria) in the Mediterranean.
The particular shot involved the firing of only one (1) weapon. A guided missile.
Nine Heinkels He-177 bombers equipped with Hs293 guided bombs made an attack on a British convoy en route from England.
Several hits were scored, but the most frightening one was the missile who hit the British troop ship "Rohna", a 6,000 ton vessel.
Crammed with allied soldiers, the He-177 crew scored a "bull´s eye".
The missile struck her amidships, right over the heads of the jammed British and US soldiers.
1,597 men got instantly killed by the massive explosion. About 1,200 of such soldiers were U.S. Army.
The vessel went down some moments later. Psychiatric cases rose in many men who witnessed the event from nearby ships in the convoy.
The He-177s returned to base unscathed.
The allies -yes, them- concealed the disaster for several decades.
Whoever those men on the He-177 were, they perhaps killed the greatest number of U.S. soldiers in the shortest period of time (merely seconds) using only one sole weapon.
The sole problem I have detected is to which unit did the He177s who carried out that succesful attack were. I am sure it was II./ KG 40
On what could the most lethal single shot in the the entire ETO, the event happened on November 26, 1943 off Bougie (Algeria) in the Mediterranean.
The particular shot involved the firing of only one (1) weapon. A guided missile.
Nine Heinkels He-177 bombers equipped with Hs293 guided bombs made an attack on a British convoy en route from England.
Several hits were scored, but the most frightening one was the missile who hit the British troop ship "Rohna", a 6,000 ton vessel.
Crammed with allied soldiers, the He-177 crew scored a "bull´s eye".
The missile struck her amidships, right over the heads of the jammed British and US soldiers.
1,597 men got instantly killed by the massive explosion. About 1,200 of such soldiers were U.S. Army.
The vessel went down some moments later. Psychiatric cases rose in many men who witnessed the event from nearby ships in the convoy.
The He-177s returned to base unscathed.
The allies -yes, them- concealed the disaster for several decades.
Whoever those men on the He-177 were, they perhaps killed the greatest number of U.S. soldiers in the shortest period of time (merely seconds) using only one sole weapon.
The sole problem I have detected is to which unit did the He177s who carried out that succesful attack were. I am sure it was II./ KG 40
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Yep - just saw that, well at least there's something out there
Nonskimmer
Captain
Where did you get your info from, Udet? I'm honestly curious, as I don't know much about this incident. Could you possibly provide a link?
Erich
the old Sage
it really doesn't matter I suppose but there were 1988 US servicemen aboard with 1,135 KIA total. 1015 US and 102 crewmembers. the web-site that Flyboy lists is very good. I have quite a bit on the Hs 293 missle and Fritz X. The He 177's may have been the A-5 version.
In essence the Allied recon was terrible for the date. No warning of the He 177's enroute or during tht attack This was KMF -26 with 24 ships, the Rohna being in a section of 5 ships coming into port. 6 escort ships werer British and 4 more were US.
the German attack lasted an hour with glide bombs being used as well as torpedo bombers.....
in brief the Allied escorts were attacked all during the entire route to port, with at least 1 torpedo attack at the convoy. after 1700hrs 4 bombers approached at 3,000 feet with 2 veering off to attack other ships and 2 towards the Rohna. One of the He's veered off an attacked another ship while another released a glid bomb towards the Rohna, the Rohna about 15 miles from Jijelli, North Africa. The bomb hit the engine compartment and the troop quarters. the Rohan sank from this 1 bomb approx. 1 hour and 30 minutes after being struck.......
One escort, the Pioneer crewmen estimated that no less tha 40-50 glide bombs were fired off which is bit much...I am reading a after action AA report stating some 24-30 Luftwaffe He 111's and He 177's took part attacking from the aport and starboard areas....
E
In essence the Allied recon was terrible for the date. No warning of the He 177's enroute or during tht attack This was KMF -26 with 24 ships, the Rohna being in a section of 5 ships coming into port. 6 escort ships werer British and 4 more were US.
the German attack lasted an hour with glide bombs being used as well as torpedo bombers.....
in brief the Allied escorts were attacked all during the entire route to port, with at least 1 torpedo attack at the convoy. after 1700hrs 4 bombers approached at 3,000 feet with 2 veering off to attack other ships and 2 towards the Rohna. One of the He's veered off an attacked another ship while another released a glid bomb towards the Rohna, the Rohna about 15 miles from Jijelli, North Africa. The bomb hit the engine compartment and the troop quarters. the Rohan sank from this 1 bomb approx. 1 hour and 30 minutes after being struck.......
One escort, the Pioneer crewmen estimated that no less tha 40-50 glide bombs were fired off which is bit much...I am reading a after action AA report stating some 24-30 Luftwaffe He 111's and He 177's took part attacking from the aport and starboard areas....
E
Nonskimmer
Captain
Ah, interesting. Thanks for the info Erich. 
- Thread starter
- #233
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Interesting...
Erich
the old Sage
A couple of sources state there was a heavy Allied escort and claims of 6 He 177's were shot down including II./KG 40 Kommandeur Major Mons anc Captain Nuss. heavy weather set in as the returning He 177's landed and another two 177's were put out of commission.
For the 21 and 26 November 1943 II./KG 40 lost 12 a/c and 8 crews.
Captain Dochtermann became Gruppenkommandeur, and becuase of the heavy losses the II. gruppe turned over to night time attacks. 3 bombers dropped special 110lb flares on the convoy's beam. Another kette of 3 would then attack the convoy from the dark side as the convoy would be silhoutted against the flares descent.........less AA fire to contend with. the bombers armed with the Hs 293 would then release their bombs some 6-9 miles out; a pretty fair distance I would say....
For the 21 and 26 November 1943 II./KG 40 lost 12 a/c and 8 crews.
Captain Dochtermann became Gruppenkommandeur, and becuase of the heavy losses the II. gruppe turned over to night time attacks. 3 bombers dropped special 110lb flares on the convoy's beam. Another kette of 3 would then attack the convoy from the dark side as the convoy would be silhoutted against the flares descent.........less AA fire to contend with. the bombers armed with the Hs 293 would then release their bombs some 6-9 miles out; a pretty fair distance I would say....
Non skimmer:
(i) Actually it was the U-boat weapon that first attracted me into WW2.
It was about ten years ago when I was still living in London that a naval officer -a friend of my dad- came to our place and gave my father a huge file of printed documents with statistics of all allied convoys that sailed everywhere during WWII and the recorded losses.
It was there when after a good while I came across the convoy attacked off Bougie on November 26, 1943.
It had a footnote for November (26) saying more or less something like "KG 40 He 177 guided bomb attack. 6000 ton troopship Rohna sunk: frigthful loss of life. 2 other vessels hit".
It was also specified the convoy lacked air coverage and that the raiders got away unscathed.
Later on I would get my hands on all the Kampfgruppen order of Battle during the entire war. Losses for KG 40. By seeing the planes the four gruppen of KG 40 had by the time and the area where they were based is that Heinkels of II gruppe carried out the action.
Number of He 177s that attacked the convoy: nine.
I have no information on German bombers of any kind other than He177s participating in the attack or attacking with torpedos though.
Sorry Erich, but since the issue was a concealed one, for a real long period of time, and with the info I have I can tell you that is not correct. The convoy did not have any air escort at all.
The losses you are referring here might well have occured, but certainly not in the attack carried out on that convoy on Nov 26.
Bombers fitted with guided bombs, attacking a convoy lacking air support, are in the most ideal and comfortable of the situations: to launch their weapons very WELL beyond the range of the AA guns in the convoy vessels.
(2) Another source is a book from an author named Clay Blair "Hitler´s U-boat War", a two volume cumbersome work, that also addresses this particular engagement clearly stating the 6000 ton data but failing to mention the unit to which the Heinkels belong.
And no, I do not think that website is to be relied upon for some of the data is incorrect.
I am done with this thread)
The issue was to point out the event of a very deadly German shot that killed more than 1000 U.S. Army troops in a mere few seconds. The topic guys.
(i) Actually it was the U-boat weapon that first attracted me into WW2.
It was about ten years ago when I was still living in London that a naval officer -a friend of my dad- came to our place and gave my father a huge file of printed documents with statistics of all allied convoys that sailed everywhere during WWII and the recorded losses.
It was there when after a good while I came across the convoy attacked off Bougie on November 26, 1943.
It had a footnote for November (26) saying more or less something like "KG 40 He 177 guided bomb attack. 6000 ton troopship Rohna sunk: frigthful loss of life. 2 other vessels hit".
It was also specified the convoy lacked air coverage and that the raiders got away unscathed.
Later on I would get my hands on all the Kampfgruppen order of Battle during the entire war. Losses for KG 40. By seeing the planes the four gruppen of KG 40 had by the time and the area where they were based is that Heinkels of II gruppe carried out the action.
Number of He 177s that attacked the convoy: nine.
I have no information on German bombers of any kind other than He177s participating in the attack or attacking with torpedos though.
Sorry Erich, but since the issue was a concealed one, for a real long period of time, and with the info I have I can tell you that is not correct. The convoy did not have any air escort at all.
The losses you are referring here might well have occured, but certainly not in the attack carried out on that convoy on Nov 26.
Bombers fitted with guided bombs, attacking a convoy lacking air support, are in the most ideal and comfortable of the situations: to launch their weapons very WELL beyond the range of the AA guns in the convoy vessels.
(2) Another source is a book from an author named Clay Blair "Hitler´s U-boat War", a two volume cumbersome work, that also addresses this particular engagement clearly stating the 6000 ton data but failing to mention the unit to which the Heinkels belong.
And no, I do not think that website is to be relied upon for some of the data is incorrect.
I am done with this thread
)The issue was to point out the event of a very deadly German shot that killed more than 1000 U.S. Army troops in a mere few seconds. The topic guys.
Nonskimmer
Captain
Well thanks for the reply anyway.
Erich
the old Sage
suggest that if interested delve into picking up the RL number covering the II./KG 40 attack from Freiburg Archiv's. Sorry but it is clear the Kommandeur Mons was KIA this date flying a He 177, so don't state there were no He 177's lost. It may not have been 8 but sources state otherwise not all Engish/American.
Erich
the old Sage
side note:
according to Flugzeugbestand und Bewgungsmeldung a total of 21 He 177A-3's were lost in November 43. 8 confirmed due to enemy action and another 4 as possible. 26 He 177's were left to start the month of December 1943 actions....
according to Flugzeugbestand und Bewgungsmeldung a total of 21 He 177A-3's were lost in November 43. 8 confirmed due to enemy action and another 4 as possible. 26 He 177's were left to start the month of December 1943 actions....
- Thread starter
- #239
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Dude what are u talking about??? Ur the one who took us off topic in the first place.. And speaking of topic, this is a dead one anyways..... Go back and read the first 2 pages of this thread and ull see the answer.....
This is sort of on topic anyhow? It is about 1000 or more Americans being killed. Okay maybe it is not about the pilot who single handedly shot down the most US pilots but it is still related.
