30mm Mine Shell?

[ralphwiggum]

I recall reading that the FW 190 "Battering Rams" used 30mm mine shells
as their canon ammo What is a "Mine shell" and how is it different from a regular 30mm round

 

[lesofprimus]

The Minengeschoß (Mine-Geschos) (Mine Shell) was made by drawn steel (the same way brass cartridges are made) instead of being forged and machined as was the usual practice for cannon shells...

This resulted in a shell with a thin but strong wall, which hence had a much larger cavity in which to pack a much larger explosive or incendiary charge than was otherwise possible.... The incendiary rounds were also often fitted with a hydrostatic fuse, which detonated when it came in contact with liquid....

This was to ensure that the round did not merely explode on the target aircraft's skin (which would cause little damage), but instead penetrated it and exploded when it came into contact with fuel or coolant inside the fuel tanks or radiators respectively.....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZZGaEEi8Ek

Ive included the Handbook/Manual German Proving Ground Rechlin 1943 in pdf form at the botton....
Cartridges, color codes, projectiles, cases, primers, fuzes.... Helps if u read Germanic.......
__________
Minengeschoss ausf A:
Basic HE ammo, 330 grams bullet carring no less than 85 grams of nitropenta explosive content, to make some comparative a standar stick grenade carry 115 grams of explosive. Impact nose fuse AZ 1587.

Minengeschoss ausf A m-Zerleger:
Like the earlier but with a self destruction device wich actuated after 3 seconds, green band on bullet.

3cm Brandgranate-patrone:
Filled with a incendiary bursting charge Ph Mg of 140 grams, 490 m/s initial speed

Minengeschoss Ausf C L-spur:
He-tracer improved, the ausf C ammo was a streamlined desing in order to achieve a more straight flying path. The ausf C carried a litle less explosive filling, about 72 grams. The base of the projectile allowed a traced element .The muzzle speed was 510 m/s.

Minengeschoss Ausf c glimmspur:
Same as avobe described, but a with a dimmer, non smoke tracer for low light/ night shooting.

Minengeschoss Ausf c glimmspur M -zerleger:
Same as above but with self destruction. Very much used for the Night fighters in Reichs defense.

Thanks to Panzerknacker

 

[wilbur1]

Holy crap thats nuts!!!!!!!

 

[ralphwiggum]

WoW!! Thanks So much for the Absolutely fascinating info! You really know your stuff!
Ralph

 

[Micdrow]

Cool stuff there Dan!!!!

 

[lesofprimus]

Pffft, I know how to google....

 

[Erich]

hey guys just to add to Dan's posting there wre at least 10 different 3cm rounds some of them Minen but not all, you also had the phosphor rounds plus Glimmspur for the night fighters with limited tracer action. also to during fall of 44 the Sturmgruppen- heavy Fw 190A-8's were using M Geschoss that started fires once they were in contact with the aluminum skin of the bombers ` very dreadful round(s)

 

[Micdrow]

Pffft, I know how to google....

 

[comiso90]

i'd like to see more test footage

 

[genkideskan]

Theres only a 20mm hydrostatic fuze, the AZ 9501. Where did you see a 30mm fuze or an AZ 9501 used on a 30mm projectile.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Thanks to Panzerknacker

You are welcomed Les , Panzerknacker ( tank buster) is my nick in ww2incolor, but the same info is available here, in the Luftwaffe cannons topic.

 

[seesul]

excellent info Dan to be added into my WW2 files...thanks!

 

[kool kitty89]

Komet weapons: MK 108 cannon

Good info on the MK 108's ammunition.

hey guys just to add to Dan's posting there wre at least 10 different 3cm rounds some of them Minen but not all, you also had the phosphor rounds plus Glimmspur for the night fighters with limited tracer action. also to during fall of 44 the Sturmgruppen- heavy Fw 190A-8's were using M Geschoss that started fires once they were in contact with the aluminum skin of the bombers ` very dreadful round(s)

That would probably be the one of the thermite (elektro-thermit) incendiary shells: The Type L, Type M, or possibly the Type J with HE filling plus thermite incendiary element)

 

[lesofprimus]

Very bad stuff none the less.... These rounds are the most fascinating ammo for me to read and talk about... Totally waaaaay ahead of their time...

 

[kool kitty89]

How much use did that type of ammunition see after the war? Did the US (or other allies) adopt it for their post-war 20 mm cannons. (if not the M3 or M24 hispano, possibly the Colt Mk.12 or M39/M61)

The 1950's ADEN/DEFA cannon at least apears to have used a high capacity shell:

(the 30x113B)

From Tony Williams' ammunition photo gallery: Untitled Document

Somthing else interesting in that picture is the interwar 23 mm Madsen shell, which looks surprisingly like a mine-shell.

 

[Tony Williams]

Errm, that picture actually comes from the photo gallery on my website....

 

[kool kitty89]

Sorry Tony, I forgot to mention the sourse. (I just added a link)

But pertaining to that post, how much does the 23mm Madsen shell resemble the german Minengeschoss? Did it have a similarly high % HE content? (obviously the tracer would reduce it somewhat)

How often was the high capacity type sheell used in the post war period and in modern weapons? (Is it used in the US 20mm weapons?)

 

[Kurfürst]

I always loved the MK 108 firing trials. This gun was extremely destructive...

British live fire trials involving an interned MK 108 and some poor old Spitfire and Blenheim airframes:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZZGaEEi8Ek

 

[lesofprimus]

Seen those pics before, but they always make my loins stir when seein them... Talk about destructive...