About Aztek nozzles

[le_steph40]

Hello,
I'm working with Aztek airbrushes for a long time (very long time...) with principaly A430 and A470. I noticed that my former airbrushes had a life guaranty but since some years it's guaranted only for 3 years. The last year I bought a new A470 to replace my "old" one which lived more 15 years. And then, problems arrived !!! The new one didn't last long, only 3 months (to paint 2 model kits). The paint went into the body of the airbrush and there was an air leak. I did an exchange and the new one had the same problems !!! I did a third exchange and still the same problems... So I did a fourth exchange and after 3 or 4 months, an air leak begins in the body on the airbrush !!! I didn't change my way of paint for 20 years. I work with enamels or acrylics and I clean with White Spirit/F Gasoline or Acetone when I work with enamels and I clean with alcool or water when I work with acrylics. The seller in France told me that this problem was common since a few time with A470...!!!
I also noticed a difference of reference in the nozzles: before the references were 9304C, 9305C, etc... Now, the references are 9304CX, 9305CX, etc... I noticed also that I can't work with the former nozzles (references in C) with my last A470 and I can't work with the last nozzles (reference in CX) with my "old" A430 !!! I don't understand why !!! I don't succed to note where are the differences between 9304C and 9304CX...
Does anyone know the difference between the references in C and the ones in CX ?
Did anyone here had the same problems during these 2 last years with his Aztek airbrush ?
TIA
Steph disappointed and angry

 

[fubar57]

Steph, this won't help you much but I'm surprised at the warranty. I've had my 470 for close to 20 years.(never started using it until last year due to great terror and the closest hobby store is a 4hr round trip so I didn't want to waste paint) and when I emailed Testors about losing an airline adapter during a move, they sent one free of charge. I've just purchased a Tawny nozzle as a backup and I'll check the parts number when I get home Tuesday

 

[stona]

I can't help with your specific problem having no experience with Aztek brushes (being an Iwata and H&S user), but if I'd had such problems with new airbrushes requiring four exchanges in short time I'd be looking to use a product from another more reliable manufacturer. The buyer has the choice,vote with your wallet!
Cheers
Steve

 

[mikewint]

Bought my Aztek back in 2010 and it has worked perfectly the entire time THOUGH it does take MANUAL INTERNAL cleaning about every 2 years or so depending on your usage. NOW I never spray enamels or lacquers and I would NEVER use acetone as a cleaner on the plastic A470. Aztetek now makes the 480 which as a metal body but I suspect that the internals are the same as the 470
MANUAL CLEANING
Be brave, once your warranty is up, go for it. Just spraying cleaner will not remove built-up over time paint residue.

1. To take the airbrush apart, you need a flat bladed screw driver. Just work it gently into the bottom back where the air line enters, pry the sections apart. Do this carefully or you will scar the plastic badly.

2. When it's apart, pull out the entire insides, they are not clipped or glued in.

3. Detach the air value from the unit. It just pulls out. You can also pull out the blue air tube, it is not glued or clipped in, just shoved in.

4. Now to get the trigger away from the front body, pull back on the red part. It is spring loaded so make sure when the trigger comes out of the grove it doesn't go flying across the room.

5. Remove the plunger from the trigger, it just slips out.

6. Now you get to clean. The arrows indicate where the airbrush gunks up. This build up of paint causes both the airbrush trigger to stick solid when left and to foul the mechanism, not allowing the needle to fully close off when the roller is in the fully closed position. Once you clean out all the crap, put the airbrush back together in the reverse order. However, be careful not to pinch the airhose when you are closing up the airbrush.

 

[mikewint]

As to the Aztek nozzles, they are color coded. Being plastic they wear and cleaning is sometime problematic so I keep 2-3 of the more common ones. If soaking and then cleaning with a hard tooth brush and cleaner doesn't fix I toss them and use a new one.
I use the Tan, Red, and Turquoise almost exclusively

 

[stona]

All I do with my brushes is flush them through with a suitable solvent for the enamel paints I use. I use white spirits because it costs less than bottled water. I'll do this until the brush feels a bit sticky or otherwise lets me know it needs some tender loving care, which is usually months and/or several models. Then, and only then, will I strip it down and give it a thorough 'deep' clean. I have never needed to carry out the cleaning routines which I know some do at the end of every session, though some paints and varnishes are much more prone to drying in the brush than those I use.
I've been doing this for years. One of my Iwatas is well over twenty years old and I've only ever replaced needles and the odd nozzle, usually damaged by me. I've never replaced a seal or packing in any of them (though my one and only H&S brush is a newby, less than two years old, and not much used, so I would hesitate to judge it...yet).
Cheers
Steve

 

[mikewint]

Steve, agreed but yours are all metal whereas the 470 Aztek is essentially all plastic and plastics to not respond well to harsh solvents like the lacquer thinners/acetone. I've was going to buy the all-metal Aztek 480 but the price $135 (kit) and my suspicion that the internals were identical to my 470 stopped me. I recently picked up a Badger 360 which has the rotatable head making it gravity or siphon feed. As a plus bonus the siphon/gravity feed hole with a feed tube installed fits all my Aztek gravity feed cups. So with a 90 degree rotation I have a side-feed just like the Aztek. I also installed the ultra-fine tip (.21mm) so I'm using it for fine detail spraying. That tiny top permanent cup holds 21 DROPS of paint so I measured and it is 0.75in in diameter so off to Walmart for 0.75in rubber leg tips; cut off the bottom of the leg tip and I have a sleeve that fits the small cup and now holds 3mL or 60 drops

 

[le_steph40]

mikewint,
Thanks for your reply, like you, is what I did to clean my airbrush every 2 years. Normally, there is no problem with acetone, the pieces are in PTFE or teflon. The problem in my 3 exchanged A470 was the seal in the nose. It's a little teflon part in which comes the needle control pin. It's a common problem since 1 or 2 years that is debated in several forums in France.
Regarding the nozzle, effectively "it works" with colours. The difference between the C references and the CX are a darker color. 9305C is grey and 9305CX is dark grey; 9304C is tan and 9305CX is more brown.
Below is 9305C and 9305CX.

As I said, I can't work with my new A470 and 9305C, I can work with 9305CX (or 9304Cx, etc). And the reverse, I can't work with my former A430 and 9305CX, I can work with 9305C (or 9304C, etc). There is no compatibilty...

 

[mikewint]

Steph, I just bought another RED nozzle and now that you brought it up I do notice that the part number is 9342 CX which I paid no attention to when I ordered it. It appears to be the same as all my other RED nozzles and fits the A470 with no problems.
The problem with harsh solvents like lacquer thinners is mixture composition. It varies with time and availability/price of the component solvents in the mixture. Two batches of the same brand thinner could have vastly different compositions as manufacturers blend the cheapest product. Plastics react differently to various solvents and time is also a factor so a better term is RESISTANT and that is a variable.
Thinner #1 €
25% Light Alaphatic Hydrocarbon Solvent 64742-89-8 3.9
33% Toluene 108-41-4 1.5
0.9% Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 0.7
5% Xylene 1330-20-7 0.75
4% Methanol 67-56-1 3.5
10% 2-Propanol 67-63-0 1.7
21% Acetone 67-64-1 7.7
1% 2-Butoxyethyl Acetate 112-07-2 0.03

Thinner #2
66% Toluene 108-88-3 1.5
7% 2Methyl-1-propanol 78-83-1 0.63
2% 2-Butoxyethanol 111-76-2 0.1
10% Methyl Isobutyl Ketone 108-10-1 1.6
15% Isobutyl Acetate 110-19-0 1.45

Thinner #3
10% 2-Butoxyethanol 111-76-2 0.1
20% n-Butyl Acetate 123-86-4 1.0
70% 1-Methoxy-2-Propanol Acetate 108-65-6 0.39

Thinner #4 €“ Extreme Duty Temperature range
100% 2-Butoxyethanol 111-76-2 0.1

The CAS number is to clarify which chemical is which. These numbers are unique whereas the chemical names are not. It is not unusual for different manufacturers to have their own brand names. The names will change but the numbers will not. Sometimes that is a good thing. For example, p-Chlorobenzotrifluoride is commonly known as Oxsol 100 if for no other reason than that it is easier to pronounce.

Take a look at the last number in each line. This is the numerical evaporative rate of that chemical. This rating system always compares chemicals to n-Butyl Acetate, which is always regarded as 1. The lower the number, the slower it evaporates. The higher the number, the faster it evaporates. Thus, acetone has an evaporative rate of 7.7 and 2-Butoxyethanol is 0.1. Acetone evaporates much faster than 2-Butoxyethanol. You may know this chemical by the name Butyl Cellosolve.

The point of all this is to quantify how these chemicals will work together to affect the application of the coating. Acetone is a very fast evaporating solvent. It is not going to hang around very long on a warm day and help the coating to remain liquid. Butyl Cellosolve, by contrast, is going to hang around the longest. This is the one that will affect how quickly to coating will tack up and dry. The higher its concentration in the blend, the slower the coating will dry.

 

[stona]

Excellent post. Many people do not understand that cellulose thinners (US lacquer thinners) are terms that cover a number of different solvent mixtures whose properties may differ widely.
I use a cheap branded cellulose thinners when I deep clean my brushes. I have no idea of its composition, but as an ex-chemist with a nose I suspect that it contains toluene and acetone among other things.
I was once involved in a discussion about using cellulose thinners as plastic cement, one guy swore it worked, another swore it didn't. They were both right, just using different brands and different solvent mixtures
Cheers
Steve

 

[mikewint]

I used to keep a can of cheap lacquer thinner for extreme cleaning until it dissolved some brushes (nibs fell off). Now if isopropyl and/or ethyl alcohol don't work or in the case of enamels Mineral Spirits I just trash the brush and get a new one.
The Aztez will get manual cleaning every two years or so and the Badger is too new at this point to extreme clean.
Lacquers and their solvents have too many negatives for me

 

[Airframes]

Not directly related to Steph's problem, and in no way is the following a criticism of the Aztek 'plastic' airbrush range, but over 20 years ago, when I was a tech rep with a large, multi-national photographic manufacturer, it was intended to introduce the Aztek 'brushes, with the company trade name printed on the side, in place of the Aztek name, into our line of products for the graphics market.
As I was known to frequently use an airbrush, I was given one to evaluate and report back.
I tried it, it worked well, and was similar in many respects to the then current, all metal Humbrol Studio One 'brush (which i wish was still around!), but after a few times using it, and I must stress, with enamels, I experienced similar problems to those described by Steph, and also found that the trigger became 'tight' and, overall, it was a real pain to clean properly.
I passed on my findings, and these corresponded to those experienced by a couple of trade customers who had also been asked to 'trial' the product.
The airbrush did not become part of the 'out sourced' company product range.
Now I know that there are many, many happy users of the Aztek 'brushes, most of whom may use acrylics, but those first impressions all those years ago have stuck and, having compared it to the Humbrol 'brush at the time, I remember thinking it was like comparing a Rolls Royce to a Trabant !

 

[mikewint]

Terry, we've discussed some of this and I deeply respect what you say but there are, IMHO, three really nice pluses:
Left and Right side feed ports that operate either gravity (3 different cup sizes) or siphon (2 jar sizes and caps that fit Testors small bottles and Tamiya bottles directly)
Volume control wheel that sets low end paint volume so you just press the trigger and a pre-selected amount of paint is sprayed. You can still pull back on the trigger to increase paint volume if necessary
9 different nozzles with needles that interchange as a unit so just one part that just screws in

 

[TheRealMrEd]

Steph,

When Testor's updated and replaced my very old airbrush, I also noticed the old nozzles didn't want to work. I finally figured out that the old nozzles had a "ring" or plastic gasket, that went between the nozzle and the airbrush body. The new gun doesn't require or want this extra space at that point.

Try using the old nozzle with no gasket, or a gasket or two gaskets. Each of the old tips came with one gasket each. New or old tips work fine on new airbrush, but with zero gaskets!

Note: don't overtighten the tip as you can deform the white plastic nozzle piece, thereby turning it into a very irregular spray pattern!

Ed

 

[mikewint]

Mine do not have such a ring and/or gasket and my Aztek is at least 8 years old

 

[le_steph40]

Steph,

When Testor's updated and replaced my very old airbrush, I also noticed the old nozzles didn't want to work. I finally figured out that the old nozzles had a "ring" or plastic gasket, that went between the nozzle and the airbrush body. The new gun doesn't require or want this extra space at that point.

Try using the old nozzle with no gasket, or a gasket or two gaskets. Each of the old tips came with one gasket each. New or old tips work fine on new airbrush, but with zero gaskets!

Note: don't overtighten the tip as you can deform the white plastic nozzle piece, thereby turning it into a very irregular spray pattern!

Ed

Thank you for the info Ed but like Mike, there is no ring on my nozzles. I try another time with another new A470, and this is the same problem: the nozzles with reference in "C" (no ring on the nozzle) don't work. Only the references in 'CX" work and I can't work with the last nozzles (reference in "CX") with my "old" A430... I think the difference in color is an explanation between the 2 series of nozzles (former and new) => see my post #8