Question about Buzz Beurling's Malta Spitfires

[stona]

with profiles by Caruana who is, I believe, Maltese.

He is and he's a very good artist. Not all his profiles are 100% accurate in my humble opinion.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Totalize]

I'll have a look, might take a day or two, and I think I might only have Part One. Meanwhile, here's a couple of photos/profiles from the Mushroom book, showing both the 'blue' and camouflage schemes.

Nice profiles. The example profiles from the book Malta Spitfire VS -1942 also look interesting.

 

[Wayne Little]

He is and he's a very good artist. Not all his profiles are 100% accurate in my humble opinion. Cheers Steve

Respectfully agree with that assessment, done some brilliant stuff though.

and on the spur of the moment ordered the Malta Spitty book too....

 

[Airframes]

Yep, I agree about Caruana's stuff - great work, but I've noticed some inaccuracies now and then.

 

[Totalize]

A couple of pictures of Malta spitfires.

Air VM Keith Park's spitfire on Malta

Jerry Billing in his Spitfire on Malta. I can see why the camo schemes were open to interpretation.This could a desert camo scheme or temperate scheme.

Then there is this one. Very dark colour camo scheme. This spitfire is from 683 squadron on Malta. Note the other spitfire waiting to take off in the background.

And Spitfire VB taking off from HMS Eagle bound for Malta. Probably in a desert camo scheme.

 

[fubar57]

Seen profiles and decals showing Beurlings T-L code as yellow as shown in the Mushroom Model Mag. PDF.

Geo

 

[Totalize]

Do you mean this one?

I like the one with the red spinner and grey green codes better though.

 

[le_steph40]

discussed here also ... It is neither understand anything ...

Beurling's EP706 - WWII - Britmodeller.com
http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/ep706-the-malta-defender.html

I just receive the book I've ordered... I'm going to study the question and "try" to understand these particulary and numerous camo schemes...

Interesting work here...
http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/malta-spitfire-mk-vc.html

 

[stona]

I keep seeing the tropical scheme, but there was a response to Malta's request for "Sea Camouflage".

Now I take "Sea Camouflage" to mean the TSS, but cannot know that for sure. Malta had devised it's own camouflage colour(s). I am however quite sure that this "Sea Scheme" is not the tropical scheme (Dark Earth, Mid Stone, some kind of blue, possibly Azure, another debate there).

Credit to Edgar Brooks for these documents and the hours of "digging" he does in our archives.

Here's a link to a long, not always relevant and sometimes acrimonious discussion, in which those documents were originally posted (by Edgar)

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/...ir-colours-and-markings/?hl= malta spitfires

Cheers

Steve

 

[fubar57]

Just quickly went through Osprey's "Malta Aces" to the description of the color plates. Blue/blueish colors mentioned are: U.S. Blue Grey, a lighter U.S. Blue painted over the Desert Scheme, Extra Dark Sea Grey, Dark Mediterranean Blue, and Light Mediterranean Blue. Also mentioned was that the paint was heavily thinned in some cases leaving the colors beneath to slightly show through after time. My thought when someone mentions a two tone blue top color is that this is just thinned blue paint over the Desert Scheme.

Geo

 

[stona]

My thought when someone mentions a two tone blue top color is that this is just thinned blue paint over the Desert Scheme.

Geo

That only applies to the aircraft supposedly repainted aboard USS Wasp.

For the others Malta's request for a "Sea Scheme" and the agreement that this would be carried out at the point of manufacture or failing that in Scotland prior to embarkation or even Gibraltar if necessary can surely not refer to the standard tropical scheme.

I did mention that this is a can of worms! As far as I know nobody (least of all me) has come up with a definitive answer.

Cheers

Steve

 

[fubar57]

Absolutely Steve. Just throwing some colors out there. Looking at the Les/Weaver3.jpg I'd like to offer EDSG.

Geo

 

[Airframes]

I agree with Steve. It's a complex, and difficult subject, especially as the hectic pace on Malta resulted in relatively sparse record keeping - recording whether an aircraft had been re-painted, and in what colours, would be the least of their worries!
One thing I'd suggest though - the aircraft normally left the factory in the then current day fighter scheme/temperate scheme. re-painting, for example in 'Desert Colours' was normally, but not always, done at the receiving MU in the destination country. However, it is highly possible that some aircraft left the factory in the FAA 'sea scheme', or were re-painted in this before embarkation, and the last photo, showing the take off from Eagle, suggests to me that this aircraft carries that scheme.
In the various books I have covering the Malta story, there are photos which appear to show the desert scheme, the 'day fighter temperate scheme', and everything in between, and in many cases it's very difficult to decide, from the quality of B&W photos, what colours are what!

 

[Totalize]

I think by originally posting this thread and the comments we have seen it definitely is a complex and difficult subject. I mean even the Author of Malta spitifre who spent years researching the subject still concedes the paint schemes are open to conjecure even to this day. In this respect my original question has been answered which was has there been any new concrete evidence that has come to light recently that lessens the controversy over the paint schemes used on Malta spitfires and for me the answer is no. However, I did see new information I was not familar with previously so it has been an overall benefit for sure.

As for Buzz Beurling's actual aircraft Paint schemes because of the lack of information it doesn't seem unreasonable at all to do a VC in a desert paint Scheme with Aircraft code T-L in Sky, red spinner and serial numbers in Black. Or UF-S in FAA scheme.

 

[Lucky13]

 

[stona]

The quotes from Brian Cauchi's little book are very good. My problem is with anecdotal evidence, particularly when it is so vague and unsupported. I do not intend to in any way diminish Vasco Barbic's input but would just ask which US sailor and are you sure he was aboard USS Wasp? Sources like this must be tested and proven because you would be surprised how many simply repeat what a mate of a mate said with a little embellishment.
I know first hand having been involved a few years ago in recording oral histories in the city where I live.
I don't know what was applied to the Spitfires on that delivery. Vasco's 'evidence' is interesting, it certainly supports one possibility, but I still don't know.

One point did alarm me in Mr Cauchi's book. In his appendix dealing with the various camouflage schemes there is no reference to the Day Fighter Scheme, the standard European scheme in 1942 and probably what one of the old pilots (Jack Rae) is referring to when he remembers Spitfires in "the demure UK colours." The Temperate Sea Scheme would be the other possibility. The Temperate Land Scheme, which he does feature, had long been superceded.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Lucky13]

As I understand, she was the only US carrier delivering Spitfires to Malta during that period....
Wish there was more colour pics from that period...
Interesting thread to say the least, as I want to do a Beurling Spitfire myself...

 

[N4521U]

I just want to do a 126 Sqn Vb and can find Nada on how to paint the GD thing?
Is there anything?
Even as defined as little as all posted here????????
I'm starting to get emotional about all this, like ready to scream!

PS
I have a list of 126 codes and among them is "V" only during the time frame of my Davidson subject.
I can find nothing with just the code "V".
Would it have a number associated with it? Like V*2, or a letter, like V*D?
LOL

 

[fubar57]

Seen quite a few with just a single letter though most have two. Scroll down here for a 126 Spitfire...Harold A. Skaarup web pages

Caption reads....

"Supermarine Spitfire Mk. VB(T), (Serial No. EP257), in service with No. 126 Squadron RAF, taxies along the dusty perimeter track at Luqa, Malta, for a sortie. A member of the groundcrew runs alongside to warn the pilot of obstacles ahead. There was considerable interchange of aircraft between squadrons on Malta at this time, and EP257 shows evidence of hastily painted-out identification letters."

 

[N4521U]

Seen quite a few with just a single letter though most have two. Scroll down here for a 126 Spitfire...Harold A. Skaarup web pages

Caption reads....

"Supermarine Spitfire Mk. VB(T), (Serial No. EP257), in service with No. 126 Squadron RAF, taxies along the dusty perimeter track at Luqa

Brilliant, wing tip obscures the "T" and I may go with this. Probably not Davidson's plane, but indicative. Might use a "D" who knows.
Thanks heaps!!!!!!