Aircraft Identification V

[kool kitty89]

P-64 would makes sense, and it would look a lot like a Boomerang (both developed from the NA-16)


Here's the full immage:

Actually it looks more like the NA-16/Wirraway than either the T-6 or Boomerang, as the tail and rear fusalage stayed about the same. (the T-6 having the triangular fin, and the Boomerang getting a stocker fusalage and a redesigned fin)

 

[Waynos]

Definitely not a Boomerang or a P-64, too long in the fuselage and too much glazing. It has the same tail shape as the Wirraway though whereas the T-6 had the same shape as the P-64. Does the oddly reshaped wing tip ring a bell for anyone?

I still think it is a two seater that has been modified to represent one of the single seaters we have mentioned (in the same way that T-6's were modified to represent Japanese dive bombers in Tora Tora Tora)

 

[kool kitty89]

Wait I looked at the P-64 too and it's got the T-6 type tail.

So maybe one of the Wirraways converted to an emergency fighter.


And it still looks a lot like a Wirrawyay either way. (it Has the Wirraway tail and fusalage)


That 3-blade prop is somthing to note too. (I think all the Wirraways Used 2-blade like the T-6)

 

[kool kitty89]

Definitely not a Tora Tora Tora T-6, those were converted to Zeros, but retained the 3-blade prop iirc.

 

[Waynos]

The P-64 has the angled wingtip as well so, my final call, is NOT a P-64, but a Wirraway altered to look like one. I'd put money on that.

You misunderstand me KK. I'm not saying its one of those, I used that as an example of how the airframe can be altered to look like something else, and the P-64 is a lot less radical a mod than a Zero.

 

[kool kitty89]

And that mystery plane looks like it may have a secod seat (possibly modified for passenger rides like other Warbirds have, or retaining one if it was converted form a Wirraway)

And here's a P-64, fusalage stocky like the Boomerang:

 

[Waynos]

Yes, look at the difference in the fuselage and canopy. But by altering a Wirraway with a bit of rear fuselage decking you've got a cheap replica.

 

[kool kitty89]

There also seems to be a lot of variety amongst P-64's some with that Wirraway type tail: Aircraft: North American P-64 NA 50

 

[kool kitty89]

From tha Website, some also have ronded wing tips AND the Wirraway tail and 2-seats! (some also have prop spinners, but that's out of context)

This one looks almost the same as the earlier pic:

 

[kool kitty89]

North American P-64

See thare that there were a number of development changes throught the NA-50 and resulting NA-68 and P-64 line. (the P-64's were NA-68's)

So the one seen with the rounder tail and wings is almost definitely a NA-50. (in some cases modified with a second seat)

Aviation Photos: North American NA-50

 

[Waynos]

Credit where its due KK, that is an excellent find.

I'm not convinced that it is a genuine NA-50 however. I am assuming that the ones on that page *are* genuine, but the glazing does not match with 'our' picture.

That said there are so many variations on this basic design can we really tell for certain?

 

[Waynos]

From reading the page you have linked to it would seem that the NA-50 was only built as a single seat fighter. If that is so maybe all the two seaters are just modified Texan/Wirraway airframes?

 

[Graeme]

If that is so maybe all the two seaters are just modified Texan/Wirraway airframes?

Makes sense.

It's certainly not an 'original' North American fighter product.

 

[Waynos]

I almost forgot, you were right with the Wyvern. Here's the original, with caption.

 

[kool kitty89]

Graeme look at my above posts on the NA-50, it looks almost identical to the mistery a/c in question.

The further development NA-68 (USAAF P-64) had significant modifications. And some NA-50's in the pictures seem to have rounded wings.

 

[kool kitty89]

And the glazing looks the same to me.

They may also just be NA-50's modified as 2-seaters, like's been done with many warbirds.



and for pics, again:

Aviation Photos: North American NA-50
Aircraft: North American P-64 NA 50

 

[kool kitty89]

I was wrong there is only 1 NA-50 left (in Peru) and a couple real NA-68 P-64's around. But neither match the a/c in those immages. (both had square wings)


That is an AT-6 Harvard. (aparently modified to look like a NA-50, although I don't know where they got the tail)
At least according to: Commerative Air Force 50th Anniversary Airsho'

Here's the same a/c I think:

 

[Wildcat]

KK is correct, its a replica P-64 made from a T-6. See A Warbirds Resource Group Site :: View topic - 05-03-08 Temple, TX air show photos Scroll 3/4 of the way down.
BTW, Wirraways have 3 blade props not two.

 

[Graeme]

G'day Wildcat,

Thanks for that forum site. And from it...

"That airplane was built as an NA-50 replica, but is now being called a P-64. It was originally started by Les Crowder and then finished up by Ezell Aviation. I worked on that airplane a fair amount while at Nelson's place, but most of the modification work had already been done by Les Crowder when we got it. It started out as an AT-6, but had the wings shortened, rudder enlarged, T-33 wheels installed, and an R-1820 bolted to the front. The firewall forward is a booger to work on, but I'm told the airplane is a real hoot to fly.Gary"

So lets clarify this. It started life a North American T-6 Texan. They modified it, as Gary states, to look like a NA-50, with obvious vertical fin surgery...



But it is "now being called a P-64" (but still retaining the NA-50 Surgery).




To me, it STILL looks more like a NA-50 than a P-64, but the correct answer is a modified North American T-6 Texan?

 

[Waynos]

KK is correct, its a replica P-64 made from a T-6.

Wildcat, you wound me.

But I'm just being a prima donna, having said that about two pages ago

KK, Graeme;
Bearing in mind the tail shape and the three blade prop, isn't it more likely to have been modified from a Wirraway in the first place, otherwise it seems a lot of trouble to go to to fit the 'wrong' shape tail?

As far as I can tell, the curved rudder trailing edge is only a feature of the Wirraway and never appeared on the NA-50 or the P-64. I am looking at the rudder shape in KK's aerial shot at the top of the page and the two side profiles posted by Graeme, all three rudders are different but the one in KK's photo matches the Wirraway, but I rattle on too much, what do you guys think?