Thumpalumpacus
Major
And an interesting discussion on the wider evaluations of military capabilities:
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lol!, that's hysterical!!It'll probably come as a Russian announcement that they have moved another submarine into the area
The Frigates, Admiral Grigorovich, Makarov and Essen are termed Krivak IV class by NATO - the one burning and first reported is the Makarov.The video of the ship burning, posted above, appears to be the Makarov, with its long forecastle mounting a single gun, a mattress radar on the mainmast, and a bulky superstructure largely aft. With credit to Dessee23 at another forum where we're discussing this war, here's a still of the burning ship compared to a peacetime photo:
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I suspect the two differing reports are a matter of misidentification. Compare to a peacetime pic of a Krivak:
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The forecastle and superstructure are very different from the pic of the burning ship.
The Frigates, Admiral Grigorovich, Makarov and Essen are termed Krivak IV class by NATO - the one burning and first reported is the Makarov.
Maybe, but there are also the The Admiral Gorshkov, and Admiral Kasatonov, they are the newest Russian class of multi-role frigates. They are a successor to the old Burevestnik class (NATO reporting name Krivak class). The hull is very similar.So it may be that both reports are true, but referring to one ship using two different identifiers?
Maybe, but there are also the The Admiral Gorshkov, and Admiral Kasatonov, they are the newest Russian class of multi-role frigates. They are a successor to the old Burevestnik class (NATO reporting name Krivak class). The hull is very similar.
So can indeed be that two Frigates were hit - one being the Makarow (Krivak IV class) and one of the two new Krivak class Frigates.
Until we get confirmation, we're only speculating, which is why I'm in wait-and-see mode. Neither Reuters nor AP are reporting it at all, which makes me think they're having to work hard for any objective confirmation.
Yeah...the lack of information is frustrating. That said, as noted earlier, the claims are already out there and so it should be pretty easy for Russia to contradict the claim if the Admiral Makarov wasn't, in fact, hit. The simple lack of any Russian information, particularly the strident denial, is somewhat telling to me. I wonder if they're trying to find a better story than "We had another accidently fire on another ship" which clearly won't cut it.
Indeed, otherwise we'll end up with another Ghost of Kiyv.I guess we have to switch to wait-and-see mode until further evidence in one way or another emerges.
There should be "captured" John Deere tractors available.
Is there no hope of a Ukrainian offensive to rescue the forces in Mariupol? It must feel like Von Paulus being left behind in Stalingrad.
Forbes isn't too bad, but yeah. It's not the NYT or BBC.Still no reports from any major outlets about the frigate allegedly hit this morning.