"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again."
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- Start date
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ThomasP
Senior Master Sergeant
The 3R41 Volna/Top Dome FC for the S-300 SAM, and OSA-M/MPZ-301 Baza/Pop Group for the 9M33M SAM are both FC (Fire Control) radars and subject to hand-off from the search radars.
The Top Pair radar is a rotating analog S-band pulse coded doppler radar with MTI. The Top Steer is a rotating analog S-band pulse coded doppler radar with MTI. The MR-231 Palm Frond is a fast rotating high high resolution X-band pulse coded radar. None of these radars have the ability to automatically hand off targets to the fire control radars.
Basically, the incoming sea skimming Neptune SSM would have to be detected by the MR-800 Voskhod (Top Pair) 3D air search and/or MR-710 Fregat (Top Steer) 3D air/surface search radars and/or MR-231 Nyada (Palm Frond) surface search/navigation radars, and then hand the target information necessary for the FC radars to look for the target (or in the case of the CIWS radars at least tell them to turn on in automatic mode). If the radars are not as good in terms of detection as they are advertised, or the operators are not alert and/or competent enough, they would not be able to hand off to the SAM systems or activate the AK-630 CIWS system in time.
The S-300F missile is not advertised as being able to intercept surface skimming missiles.
The 9M33M missile on the Moskva may have been capable of intercepting surface skimming missiles.
The AK-630 CIWS is advertised as being able to shoot down sea skimming missiles.
The Top Pair was on the fore mast. The Top Steer was located amidship.
The Top Pair radar is a rotating analog S-band pulse coded doppler radar with MTI. The Top Steer is a rotating analog S-band pulse coded doppler radar with MTI. The MR-231 Palm Frond is a fast rotating high high resolution X-band pulse coded radar. None of these radars have the ability to automatically hand off targets to the fire control radars.
Basically, the incoming sea skimming Neptune SSM would have to be detected by the MR-800 Voskhod (Top Pair) 3D air search and/or MR-710 Fregat (Top Steer) 3D air/surface search radars and/or MR-231 Nyada (Palm Frond) surface search/navigation radars, and then hand the target information necessary for the FC radars to look for the target (or in the case of the CIWS radars at least tell them to turn on in automatic mode). If the radars are not as good in terms of detection as they are advertised, or the operators are not alert and/or competent enough, they would not be able to hand off to the SAM systems or activate the AK-630 CIWS system in time.
The S-300F missile is not advertised as being able to intercept surface skimming missiles.
The 9M33M missile on the Moskva may have been capable of intercepting surface skimming missiles.
The AK-630 CIWS is advertised as being able to shoot down sea skimming missiles.
The Top Pair was on the fore mast. The Top Steer was located amidship.
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,325
- Jul 5, 2015
Earlier this morning I read this
www.forbes.com
And just a few hours later read this unconfirmed news (coincidence???)
euroweeklynews.com
The Russian Frigate ‘Admiral Makarov’ Might Be The Juiciest Target In The Black Sea
After the dramatic sinking of the missile-cruiser Moskva by a Ukrainian missile battery on April 14, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is down to just three major surface combatants. The best and most important of them might be the new missile-frigate 'Admiral Makarov.'
www.forbes.com
And just a few hours later read this unconfirmed news (coincidence???)
UPDATE: Russian Navy warship Admiral Makarov on fire - ‘no information to corroborate reports’
UPDATE 12.33 am (MAY 7) – The US Pentagon said they have no information regarding the fate of the Russian Navy warship ‘Admiral Makarov’ – first reported as being sunk but later alleged to be on fire…
euroweeklynews.com
Admiral Beez
Major
Are there any examples of CIWS actually stopping an AShM fired in anger? I'm reminded of USS Stark where the CIWS failed to activate and prevent the two Exocet strikes. Live-fire exercises where everyone's prepared are one thing, but use in actual combat conditions seems to show different results.
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Admiral Beez
Major
Jesus H. Christ. Another operational or CIWS fail? If this is true Putin's going to be as pissed as Hitler after Barrents Sea where he chucked out Admiral Raeder and essentially scrapped the surface fleet.And just a few hours later read this unconfirmed news (coincidence???)
UPDATE: Russian Navy warship Admiral Makarov on fire - ‘no information to corroborate reports’
UPDATE 12.33 am (MAY 7) – The US Pentagon said they have no information regarding the fate of the Russian Navy warship ‘Admiral Makarov’ – first reported as being sunk but later alleged to be on fire…
The US with its recon sats sitting over Ukraine is clearly telling the UAF where the Russian ships are located.
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Wildcat
Major
Interesting! I'll wait and see what info is forthcoming before I get too excited.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
At this rate they are only going to have their coal powered submarines left.
Admiral Beez
Major
Poor Admiral Makarov, can't catch a break. Sails his flagship the battleship Petropavlovsk into a minefield and drowns. Now this.
www.forbes.com
It's going to be hard for Russia to have a successful VE Day parade on May 9th when pics of its latest warship on fire hit the airwaves. Apparently on May 9th the Ukrainians are planning to march a fleet of destroyed Russian tanks and vehicles down the main road in Kyiv.
Me too, but damn this has to be embarrassing.
The Russians Are Losing The Naval War Off Ukraine—To An Enemy With No Warships
Ukraine’s navy, which after scuttling its flagship no longer has a single large vessel, continues to chip away at Russia’s own naval power in the Black Sea. With a big assist from Ukraine’s army, of course.
www.forbes.com
It's going to be hard for Russia to have a successful VE Day parade on May 9th when pics of its latest warship on fire hit the airwaves. Apparently on May 9th the Ukrainians are planning to march a fleet of destroyed Russian tanks and vehicles down the main road in Kyiv.
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Wildcat
Major
Found on Twitter.
Jagdflieger
Senior Airman
- 580
- Mar 23, 2022
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,004
- Jun 25, 2013
In the case of the USS Stark, the Phalanx system was either set to manual mode or turned off, as it couldn't be in automatic mode if there were helicopters flying nearby: it would shoot the tips off the rotor blades.
Jagdflieger
Senior Airman
- 580
- Mar 23, 2022
In the BBC live documentary "Battleship" they were very impressive. - sorry I just couldn't resist.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
That's if the paddlewheels haven't rotted away ...
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Poor Admiral Makarov, can't catch a break. Sails his flagship the battleship Petropavlovsk into a minefield and drowns. Now this.
Me too, but damn this has to be embarrassing.
The Russians Are Losing The Naval War Off Ukraine—To An Enemy With No Warships
Ukraine’s navy, which after scuttling its flagship no longer has a single large vessel, continues to chip away at Russia’s own naval power in the Black Sea. With a big assist from Ukraine’s army, of course.
It's going to be hard for Russia to have a successful VE Day parade on May 9th when pics of its latest warship on fire hit the airwaves. Apparently on May 9th the Ukrainians are planning to march a fleet of destroyed Russian tanks and vehicles down the main road in Kyiv.
From your linked article:
Down three amphibs as well as Moskva with its long-range air-defense missiles, the Black Sea Fleet no longer can concentrate a large landing force nor protect it from air and missile attack. That means the Russians almost certainly can't open a littoral front along Ukraine's western coastline in order to stage an assault on the strategic port of Odessa, Ukraine's main gateway to the sea.
That could free up Odessa's garrison, including the reserve 5th Tank Brigade with its undamaged T-72 battalions, to roll east in support of Ukraine's campaign around the port of Kherson, occupied by the Russians since early March.
Moskva, Saratov and the other landing ships are the most significant naval casualties on the Russian side, but they're not the only ones. On or before March 22, Ukrainian army troops in Mariupol—an historic port on the Sea of Azov, adjacent to the Black Sea—struck a Raptor with at least one Konkurs anti-tank missile as the boat patrolled close to shore.
That makes two big Russian ships sunk plus two damaged, as well as three patrol boats knocked out if not totally destroyed. This out of a regional fleet that, before the war, included just seven large surface combatants—frigates and large corvettes plus Moskva—in addition to a half-dozen landing ships, six or seven Raptors and six or so diesel-electric submarines.
Bear in mind, Turkey controls the Bosphorous Strait, the only waterway connecting the Sea of Azov and Black Sea to the Mediterranean Sea and thus the open ocean. Ankara is a strong backer of Ukraine's independence—remember, the TB-2 drone is a Turkish product—and has not allowed the Russian navy to send in fresh ships to make good the Black Sea Fleet's losses.
Interesting reading.
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,325
- Jul 5, 2015
Earlier this morning I read this
The Russian Frigate ‘Admiral Makarov’ Might Be The Juiciest Target In The Black Sea
After the dramatic sinking of the missile-cruiser Moskva by a Ukrainian missile battery on April 14, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is down to just three major surface combatants. The best and most important of them might be the new missile-frigate 'Admiral Makarov.'
And just a few hours later read this unconfirmed news (coincidence???)
UPDATE: Russian Navy warship Admiral Makarov on fire - ‘no information to corroborate reports’
UPDATE 12.33 am (MAY 7) – The US Pentagon said they have no information regarding the fate of the Russian Navy warship ‘Admiral Makarov’ – first reported as being sunk but later alleged to be on fire…
It seems it didn't sunk (yet) just hit by a missile and is on fire, altough moskva started with a fire an ended sunk.
Russian frigate Admiral Makarov ‘on fire after being hit by Ukrainian missile’
Ship was sailing near Snake Island when hit, say reports
www.independent.co.uk
Thumpalumpacus
Major
It seems it didn't sunk (yet) just hit by a missile and is on fire, altough moskva started with a fire an ended sunk.
Russian frigate Admiral Makarov ‘on fire after being hit by Ukrainian missile’
Ship was sailing near Snake Island when hit, say reports
Awaiting independent confirmation. No doubt we'll hear about, and perhaps see pics of, satellite confirmation.
buffnut453
Captain
BBC has updated its count of known Russian casualties:
An open source investigation by the BBC Russian Service has established the identities of 2,120 Russian soldiers killed during the invasion of Ukraine so far.
The figure - likely only a fraction of the true death toll - was compiled using official notices, press reports, and family confirmations.
Around 20% of the confirmed dead were officers, but this may be partly explained by the fact that the deaths of higher-ranking officers are more likely to be reported.
A disproportionate number of the casualties also came from poorer Russian regions, with only three of the dead known to have come from Moscow despite almost 1 in 10 Russians living in the capital.
The Kremlin hasn't released an updated death toll since 25 March - when it put its own losses at 1,351.
The true number of casualties is impossible to know, but last week the UK estimated around 15,000 Russian troops had been killed - lower than Ukraine's own estimates but significantly more than has been acknowledged by Moscow.
An open source investigation by the BBC Russian Service has established the identities of 2,120 Russian soldiers killed during the invasion of Ukraine so far.
The figure - likely only a fraction of the true death toll - was compiled using official notices, press reports, and family confirmations.
Around 20% of the confirmed dead were officers, but this may be partly explained by the fact that the deaths of higher-ranking officers are more likely to be reported.
A disproportionate number of the casualties also came from poorer Russian regions, with only three of the dead known to have come from Moscow despite almost 1 in 10 Russians living in the capital.
The Kremlin hasn't released an updated death toll since 25 March - when it put its own losses at 1,351.
The true number of casualties is impossible to know, but last week the UK estimated around 15,000 Russian troops had been killed - lower than Ukraine's own estimates but significantly more than has been acknowledged by Moscow.
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,325
- Jul 5, 2015
It's seeming more and more likely that the Claims about the Russian Frigate Admiral Makarov being stuck by Ukrainian Anti-Ship Missiles off the Coast of Odessa is True, multiple Rescue Ships and Aircraft are reportedly in the Area with U.S Surveillance Drones keeping eyes on it.
Though so far this is still not 100% Confirmed.
Though so far this is still not 100% Confirmed.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Model of a proposed Russian Naval Monument just released:
