The -29K was the Soviet/Russian development for carrier vessels.
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (1 Viewer)
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The -29K was the Soviet/Russian development for carrier vessels.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Oh.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
On the other hand, several Eastern nations have pledged direct support of the Ukraine which are NATO members.
So if they get involved, then that creates a situation of NATO involvement via NATO alliances and could create a domino effect, much like how WWI started.
I have a feeling (to which I hope I'm wrong) that this will turn into a fugly mess.
So if they get involved, then that creates a situation of NATO involvement via NATO alliances and could create a domino effect, much like how WWI started.
I have a feeling (to which I hope I'm wrong) that this will turn into a fugly mess.
His endgame is the return of Russia's borders, influence, and control to the German border. The return of the USSR. He will not stop at Ukraine I am afraid. He is already trying to bully Bulgaria, Hungary, Turkey, and Estonia.
NATO has no choice but to draw a line and stick to it.
Remember 1938? Germany walked into Austria. The world stood by. Hitler was emboldened. Next came Czechoslovakia. The world said it was ok to "secure peace." Hitler was further emboldened. Next came Poland.
If we don't stand our ground now, its Ukraine today, and Poland tomorrow.
buffnut453
Captain
There's a subtle but important difference. The domino effect that led to WW1 was enabled because of mutually-supporting defensive treaties between power blocs.
Individual NATO member nations are at liberty to provide whatever support to Ukraine that they see fit...but that's not a formal, binding treaty. And just because the US, UK or others provide some support to Ukraine does not equate to "NATO involvement".
Even if there are forces on the ground in Ukraine from NATO member nations (e.g. training teams), that doesn't mean NATO needs to act if those troops get caught up in the fighting.
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
So we have the option of Russian domination of Ukraine or all out nuclear war?
That's messed up.
I was hoping logic was there but now it's a box of frogs with extra gravy.
I like reading about world wars. Not being a player.
That's messed up.
I was hoping logic was there but now it's a box of frogs with extra gravy.
I like reading about world wars. Not being a player.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Putin did make it clear that he wanted NATO out of Bulgaria and Romania, so if either of those two nations get involved, he will most likely use that as an excuse to claim "NATO involvement", even though, as you mentioned, any nation can act independently.
He also demanded that Turkey (a NATO country) shuts down the Bosphorus Strait and publicly support the invasion of Ukraine. He has gone mad.
Glider
Captain
I have the feeling that the Russian forces are not getting along as well as they expected. By this time I would have seen lots of PR videos showing beaten and crushed Ukrainian forces to support the statement that large numbers of the defending forces were laying down their arms.
There is very little along those lines
There is very little along those lines
If the Ukrainian reports are correct, the Russians are advancing but sustaining significant casualties.
it is chroatian mig-21um
Thumpalumpacus
Major
The Moscow stock exchange lost 40% of its value this morning, and with one of the sanctions being locking Russia out of the international banking system, it will be very difficult for those companies to recover that value. This matters because these are the oligarchs Putin is in symbiosis with, and support his regime.
As a result, the ordinary Russian will be feeling the pinch for a long time to come, I think.
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The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
I want to chat about the thin armour of HMS Indefatigable again.
I am genuinely fearful for the future about now.
I am genuinely fearful for the future about now.
Strongmen never care how the ordinary people feel.
He sees himself as the next great dictator of the USSR, and the man who brought it back to glory. He can careless about anyone but himself.
We will give them as many Spikes and Piorun MANPADS as they will need....
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
We have a lot of armchair strategists positing "if those guys just did this" or "why didn't they do this" etc for earlier wars. Well, this is the real deal. What schemes should be put into effect, now? Here's the chance to really shine and show one's strategic insight now that we're in a situation SIMILAR to '39. Reverse lebensraum if you will.
I'm not serious. Just venting.
I'm not serious. Just venting.
Back to the attack itself. I understand Chernobyl has been taken. And there is fighting on an airfield near Kiev.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Oy.
Unfortunately, I see no happy ending for Ukraine. Ukraine will fall, seize to exist in its current state, and a pro Putin puppet satellite state will be created.
And China will also be emboldened.
Scary times indeed gentlemen.
And China will also be emboldened.
Scary times indeed gentlemen.
