fubar57
General
The big difference, military base vs hospital wing
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (4 Viewers)
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
An interesting article I just read regarding potential 2023 operations to be found here. It's got a lot of pertinent points that defy excerpting, so I'll just post the link. It's worth the read.
Not bad. I do take issue with this line though: "It also must deliver more armored vehicles, specifically German Leopard-2 Tanks; the U.S. must twist Germany's arm until those tanks reach Ukraine."
As I have said/questioned before - why the focus on Germany and the Leo 2s? What about M1 Abrams or Leclerc's or Challengers or Arietes or K1s or Merkavas?
Looking at the numbers:
- M1 Abrams: The US army alone supposedly has some 2500 in service and another 3500+ in storage - surely some of those could be supplied?
- Leo 2s: Germany has about 300 in service.
- Challenger 2: Britain has some 400 odd
- Leclerc: France has some 220 odd
- Ariete: Italy has some 200
- K1: Korea has some 1500 in service
- Merkava: Israel has produced ~2000 over the years and even the older ones would be welcomed...along with some Namer IFVs...
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Agreed on all counts. America has the resources to take the lead on this -- and so we should.
buffnut453
Captain
More on the Mkiivka strike:
www.reuters.com
Russia says dozens of its troops killed in attack in eastern Ukraine
Russia has acknowledged that dozens of its troops were killed in one of the Ukraine war's deadliest strikes, drawing demands from Russian nationalist bloggers for commanders to be punished for housing soldiers alongside an ammunition dump.
www.reuters.com
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Israel will not do anything that will compromise it's security.
In regards to Germany and the Leopard. It's not about Germany parting with it's Leopards but not allowing any other nation from sending theirs.
The Abrams is an obvious choice for Ukraine, but it would take time to not only get the tanks into Ukraine, but spare parts and ammunition, too.
Then there's the training factor (crews and mechanics) that would keep them off the battlefield for over half a year, at least.
The idea of sending former Soviet equipment to Ukraine is the best choice at the moment: zero down time for crews and zero down time for mechanics. Spare parts not only in depots, but being drug in by farmers as well as ammunition already in stockpiles, nearby nations and donated by the Russians.
This means no interruptions in offensive/defensive ops.
In regards to Germany and the Leopard. It's not about Germany parting with it's Leopards but not allowing any other nation from sending theirs.
The Abrams is an obvious choice for Ukraine, but it would take time to not only get the tanks into Ukraine, but spare parts and ammunition, too.
Then there's the training factor (crews and mechanics) that would keep them off the battlefield for over half a year, at least.
The idea of sending former Soviet equipment to Ukraine is the best choice at the moment: zero down time for crews and zero down time for mechanics. Spare parts not only in depots, but being drug in by farmers as well as ammunition already in stockpiles, nearby nations and donated by the Russians.
This means no interruptions in offensive/defensive ops.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Right, but when driving we're told to look down the road, not at the end of the hood. The time for us to start taking these steps is now, even they won't come to fruition for 12-18 months. The Ukrainians will be in danger for a long time to come, after all.
Agreed plus they have a large ex-Russian community.
Agreed - my point was more that the focus is often put on Germany and the Leo2s as though they are the only game in town re more modern tanks.
Agree again.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
As I've mentioned before, I suspect there's alot of things going on behind the curtain that's not being shared with the media.
Once Ukraine started to seriously whip Russia's ass last summer, the Western hawks most likely felt investment in Ukraine defense was not a risk.
As such, brining small groups of Ukrainian trainees at a time to learn NATO style weapon systems (AFVs, Fighters, etc.) may be a reality.
Admiral Beez
Captain
It's the only pan-European MBT. AIUI, the issue is that other Leopard II operators would like to consider donating their tanks to Ukraine, but they can't unless Germany provides the spares and maintenance support. It's fine if Germany doesn't want to share their Leo2 tanks, but Germany is also blocking Poland, the Baltics Reps, Finland, and others from sending Leo2 to Ukraine. At least that's my take.
Leopard 2 From Finland And Other Allies For Ukraine: How Real Their Transfer Is | Defense Express
The Leopard 2 can be called a "pan-European" tank, which allows us to assess the possibility of its transfer not by one country, but by 5-10 allies at once
en.defence-ua.com
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buffnut453
Captain
Can't disagree with the thoughts expressed here:
www.bbc.com
Ukraine war: Putin should face trial this year, says top lawyer
Russia's leader is a "guilty man", says the barrister who led the case against Serbia's ex-leader Milosevic.
www.bbc.com
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Can't disagree with the thoughts expressed here:
Ukraine war: Putin should face trial this year, says top lawyer
Russia's leader is a "guilty man", says the barrister who led the case against Serbia's ex-leader Milosevic.
In essence, it's stating that peace itself is a hostage. That too should be a war-crime.
The Russians are literally trying to freeze the Ukrainians into submission. They've tried to use attacks on grain exports to deliver hunger onto other countries, in the hopes of getting those countries to pressure for peace. They've tortured, maimed, and murdered thousands in the hopes that terror can take up the slack where their military has failed. These decisions have all come from the top.
Sadly, Putin will likely never pay the price for his own crimes, and the crimes he has ordered, aided, and abetted. Neither Russia nor the world will heal until he's breathing dirt.
Admiral Beez
Captain
Agreed. And as for a trial, Putin didn't do this alone. It's the Russian people who Ukraine and the world will need to on day come to terms and forgive. There needs to be a type of denazificafion or national mindset change like in Germany or Japan post-WW2.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Right, but it took occupying those countries to force them to face their pasts, and even so, it's incomplete. Russia, on the other hand, has laws on the books forbidding honest discussion of this war. The change in leadership will have to be drastic, because any Putinite will likely enforce those laws.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Pro-Putin operatives in Germany work to turn Berlin against Ukraine
In Germany some are clamouring for a change in course on Ukraine. Key figures in the campaign have links to the Russian state or far right, a Reuters investigation has found.
buffnut453
Captain
I found this interesting. One of the common complaints about Ukraine is the historically rife corruption. Ironically, Russia's invasion may actually help Zelensky et al overcome the major drivers of that corruption, the Ukrainian oligarchs:
www.bbc.com
Russia's war drains Ukraine's rich list of power
Ukraine's billionaire oligarchs have lost money and influence because of the war.
www.bbc.com
