"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (7 Viewers)

[Admiral Beez]

The Ukrainians have already struck Russia.

Has Ukraine claimed that?

 

[SaparotRob]

To the best of my faulty recollection, no.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Has Ukraine claimed that?

The unspoken premise in this question is that Ukraine would claim any attacks on this logistics hub that's only a few miles from the border.

My point was that the earlier helicopter attack inside Russia proper did not expand the war.

Further, the last thing Russia wants right now is to add to its list of combatants. I'm sure they're very aware of the looming quagmire should they fail to capture the Donbas, and their efforts will be focused there, in all likelihood. That's common-sense operational doctrine. They're not stupid.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Belgorad but Ukraine maintains that it might have been Heaven acting in mysterious ways.

Right, Belgorod is in Russia.

 

[SaparotRob]

I have been watching a lot of talking heads go on about the war. I believe I read an article from mainstream news that a U.S. official said Ukraine would be justified in firing back at artillery firing on them, even if that included artillery inside the Russian border. I don't recall if he mentioned logistical centers.

 

[ThomasP]

Interesting info on the use of the Stinger MANPADS by the Afghan Mujahideen vs the Russians.

The Russian invasion/war in Afghanistan lasted from December 1979 to February 1989.

The US supplied 250x launchers and 900x FIM-92A/B Stinger missiles to the Mujahideen forces from September 1986 to September 1987. According to the Mujahideen the Stinger accounted for 269 Russian aircraft shot down - out of 451 total (118 fixed wing and 333 helicopters, including accidents) lost during the entire war.

So in just ~3 1/2 years 269 aircraft were shot down with early versions of the Stinger, vs ~182 aircraft in 10 years lost due to other weapons or accident.

(It should be noted that the USSR claimed only 35 fixed wing and 63 helicopters were lost to all causes during the war.)

The FIM-92A/B had a ~5 km range. The current versions being supplied to Ukraine are the FIM-92E/H model, with a range of ~8 km, improved seeker, and improved ECCM.

edit: changed "Russians claim" to "USSR claimed"

 

[Admiral Beez]

Interesting info on the use of the Stinger MANPADS by the Afghan Mujahideen vs the Russians.

If there's one thing this Russo-Ukraine War is telling us is that the dominant era of the MANPADS and MANPATS has arrived. Every infantry man is capable of carrying a relatively lightweight simple to use weapon that can kill anything that flies or rolls past.

 

[ThomasP]

I wonder what type of drone was shot down by what type of MANPADS in the video I linked upthread in my post#7,532?

 

[GTX]

Ukraine's Book of Executioners will collect evidence of alleged Russian war crimes

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says a new tool will collate evidence of war crimes and support his longstanding pledge to bring to account Russian servicemen accused of murders, rape and looting.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Escuadrilla Azul]

Low, Fast And Dangerous: A Firsthand Account Of Ukraine's Secret Helicopter Rescue Missions

In an exclusive interview, one rescuer describes the helicopter missions into the besieged Azovstal Steel plant in Russian-occupied Mariupol.

www.thedrive.com

 

[XBe02Drvr]

If the aircraft is hugging the ground then you may well have under ten seconds from first indication that it it coming until it has passed you.

The old FB111 was supposedly immune to MANPADS when in TFR mode, "hard ride", mach .95, <200 AGL. By the time the IR seeker was initialized, the jet was too far away and going too fast for the missile to catch with its available fuel. Reportedly (by the the target pilot) confirmed by live test with an "emasculated" Stinger.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

It's a shame that the Ukrainians can't reduce the Kremlin to the pile of rubble that it should be with Putin's remains inside where they belong.

Read Chains of Command by Dale Brown. Get your "nuke the Kremlin" fix.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Have the Ukrainians lost Severodonetsk?

 

[J_P_C]

 

[ThomasP]

Plastic Steel? I use that on my models.

 

[Johnny Curedents]

Have the Ukrainians lost Severodonetsk?

Yes. And an article yesterday published inside Russia revealed that, had Zelenskyy not listened to bad counsel from Boris Johnson back in March, if he had continued bargaining in Turkey rather than withdrawing, he might have saved all but the two Donbass republics. Now he will be forced to pay a much steeper price in negotiations and, the longer Kiev holds out, the higher the price to be paid. The notion foisted on Zelenskyy by Johnson about Wuderwaffen saving Ukraine was crackpot from the get go.

 

[ThomasP]

re Severodonetsk

No, the Ukrainians have not yet lost the city. They still hold the eastern edge of the city, along a line NW to SE. The Ukrainian artillery (positioned on the eastern side of the Siverskyi Donets River) is making it very difficult for the Russians to bring their artillery to bear on the eastern part of the city, and do their usual total destruction of the structures. Most of the fighting in the city is street-street and house-house. The Ukrainians have tanks in the city acting as mobile pillbox and artillery, ambushing any Russian vehicles that attempt to move forward.

 

[ThomasP]

The Ukrainian forces are still holding a line south of Lysychansk (just on the western side of the river), from Toshkivka running to the west through the hills, and across the Dnipro River. I do not know what exactly happened, but there are reports of one Russian BTG attacking this line having broken and run in the last day or so.

 

[GrauGeist]

Yes. And an article yesterday published inside Russia revealed that, had Zelenskyy not listened to bad counsel from Boris Johnson back in March, if he had continued bargaining in Turkey rather than withdrawing, he might have saved all but the two Donbass republics. Now he will be forced to pay a much steeper price in negotiations and, the longer Kiev holds out, the higher the price to be paid. The notion foisted on Zelenskyy by Johnson about Wuderwaffen saving Ukraine was crackpot from the get go.

Had Zelensky negotiated back in March, giving away stolen territory, it would have encouraged Russia even further.

Those "republic's" are puppets of Moscow, complete with "Soviet Union" top level domain extensions on their web domains.

So far, Russia has "enclaves" in Georgia, Moldova with views that other nations have "ethnic Russian populations" that need "protection".

Also, the Kremlin has made it very clear (on many occasions) that it does not consider Ukraine a sovereign nation.

Zelensky is 100% justified in refusing to negotiate: Russia has invaded his nation, killed his people and destroyed his cities.
And there is no "wunderwaffe", the equipment Ukraine is receiving, is time-tested, battle-worthy material that is having good results in killing the invaders.

One item that is in short supply, though, is sunflower seeds for the Russians' pockets...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yes. And an article yesterday published inside Russia revealed that, had Zelenskyy not listened to bad counsel from Boris Johnson back in March, if he had continued bargaining in Turkey rather than withdrawing, he might have saved all but the two Donbass republics. Now he will be forced to pay a much steeper price in negotiations and, the longer Kiev holds out, the higher the price to be paid. The notion foisted on Zelenskyy by Johnson about Wuderwaffen saving Ukraine was crackpot from the get go.

Tucker Carlson much?