Admiral Beez
Captain
Does the engine placement and type reduce the A-10's heat signature?
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (3 Viewers)
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MiTasol
2nd Lieutenant
The Otter is mixing about 10 parts of air to one part of exhaust. Admittedly the air has been heated by the cylinders so it may be topside of 200C but it will still drop the exhaust temperature a lot. Working next to it with the engine running it is merely warm but that probably means nothing as it is mixed with the airflow from the prop.
machine shop tom
Senior Airman
- 503
- Apr 13, 2007
Sarah Palin will rally the locals and push them into the sea.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
The placement helps to shelter the heat sig from ground-based IR, because the hottest part of the exhaust flows above the horizontal stabilizer, which presents a cooler surface to IR seekers. It's also shielded partially from the sides thanks to the two vert stabs. Needless to say this is imperfect, serving to ameliorate rather than eliminate the issue. IR missiles can still track and kill the plane based on engine exhaust, and in more-modern all-aspect missiles, simply on the engine's operating heat, to my understanding.
I can't speak to the heat emitted by high-bypass turbofans vs turbojets, but I'd imagine the exhaust is a little cooler in the former. Again, probably not enough to fool all-aspect IR seeker-heads, which in some forms can home in on the heat of the friction generated on the aircraft's surface -- though probably not against a plane as slow as the A-10 in its combat environment.
special ed
1st Sergeant
- 4,847
- May 13, 2018
Admiral Beez
Captain
As a lad in the 1980s I thought that the A-10 was far better than the Su-25 in the CAS and ground attack role. But in today's environment over Ukraine it seems that the swift Frogfoot has a place while the Thunderbolt is deemed unsurvivable.
Have Russian and Ukrainian Frogfeet met in combat?
Admiral Beez
Captain
Still a lot slower than the 606 mph (per Wiki) speed of the Frogfoot. I think the Sepcat Jaguar was closer to the Frogfoot spec, minus the latter's armour. Imagine the UAF with Jaguars. Or Tornados!
Northrop YA-9 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Interesting how similar it is to the Frogfoot.
Regarding the Tornado, while the IDS or GR variant would rule the ground attack world, would the ADV or F3 have any role over Ukraine? The F3's radar should be useful in drone interception, and the Tornado could carry a lot of missiles in a short range layout.
It's too bad all these great NATO combat aircraft were scrapped and thus unavailable for Ukraine when the Russians kept theirs in storage or active service.
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Thumpalumpacus
Captain
I don't know -- I haven't read of any encounters.
My sense is that the A-10 is better at CAS/BAI due to its higher loadout and likely better survivability.
I don't think the Ukrainians prefer the Su-25 due to greater capability, but rather to the fact that 1) they already have it in inventory and maintenance/supply-chains, and 2) while the F-16 cannot do what the A-10 does low and slow in terms of survivability, the A-10 certainly cannot do the air-superiority mission at all. In other words, rather than getting an American loaner they already have planes for, they want to expand capabilities, and at the same time the F-16 can still put iron on target.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
A lower top-speed, combined with more-efficient turbofan engines, means that an A-10 can hang around longer over the battlefield -- necessary when considering how much ordnance it needs to discharge. Loiter-time is important in this mission.
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Our flying club T34B had ejector tube exhausts similar to this but with a somewhat smaller air/exhaust ratio, and our club mechanic, an engineer student, said that it actually provided some thrust as well as a reduction in cooling drag. He claimed it gave our 225 HP Continental O-470 roughly equivalent thrust to a 235 HP O-540 Lycoming with fixed pitch prop like in a Pawnee. You couldn't prove it by me, as though she was a sweet flyer, she had a touch of the overweight/underpowered feel to her. (But those pipes gave her a throaty "Harley rumble" that assuaged the young buck ego!)
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Admiral Beez
Captain
You don't see Frogfeet loitering over the targets nowadays. They race in, lob some unguided rockets or bombs in the general direction of the enemy and then zoom away, dumping flares as they scoot. I have to wonder if those air strikes accomplish anything relative to drone-directed artillery and GPS-guided HIMARs. Either way, I'd not want to be loitering over the Russians in a slow A-10 whilst slowly turning to line up my big gun.
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Admiral Beez
Captain
You may be right.
View: https://twitter.com/noelreports/status/1662808692192866308?s=61&t=bmtNxWabcsIKJ6TkHkd-SA
Here's how it's done.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mju6XUIlm6I
But is the Dnipro river too wide?
Back in 2016 the Ukrainian military built a more conventional crossing.
Ukrainian military engineers built 560 m span pontoon bridge over the Dnieper River
These maneuvers were held in the framework of the Ukrainian Rubizh 2016 strategic exercise. More than 500 servicemen and about 300 vehicles participate in the evolutions. Military engineers built 560 m span pontoon bridge over the Dnieper River near Kherson city. Chief of General Staff of the...
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Thumpalumpacus
Captain
KYIV, May 29 (Reuters) - Russia put five aircraft out of action in an attack on a military target in western Ukraine and caused a fire at the Black Sea port of Odesa in heavy air strikes early on Monday, Ukrainian officials said.
Kyiv came under intense attack for the second successive night but said that most of the drones and missiles fired at the capital overnight had been shot down. Explosions rocked Kyiv again as the capital came under fire again on Monday morning.
"Emergency services have responded to a call near the centre of the capital. The attack on Kyiv continues. Don't leave the shelters!" Mayor Vitaly Klitschko wrote on the Telegram messaging app as residents ran to shelters in metro stations.
The attacks were part of a new wave of increasingly frequent and intense air strikes launched by Moscow this month as Kyiv prepares to launch a counteroffensive to try to take back territory occupied by Russian forces.
In a rare acknowledgement of damage suffered at a military "target", Ukraine did not name the site or sites hit in the western region of Khmelnitskiy but said work was under way to restore a runway and five aircraft were taken out of service.
Russia hits Ukrainian military facility and Odesa port in air strikes
Russia put five aircraft out of action in an attack on a military target in western Ukraine and caused a fire at the Black Sea port of Odesa in heavy air strikes early on Monday, Ukrainian officials said.
www.reuters.com
Admiral Beez
Captain
I find it amazing that with their recon satellites the Russians still have not found and neutralized the Ukrainian air force. The UAF has over one hundred MiG-25, Su-24, Su-25 and Su-27. They must be experts at dispersal, diversion and disguise to keep them all operational and intact.
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,295
- Jul 5, 2015
The reason is that their recon/spy satellites are not that amazing
Why Russian Space Satellites Are Failing in the Ukraine War
Russia Has Unleashed a ‘Campaign of Missile Terror’ Due to Failing Satellites
Where are Moscow’s eyes in the skies?
"The Ukrainian army can use commercial systems to obtain images of any area in high detail at least twice a day in favorable weather conditions, whereas the Russian army can get an image of the same area approximately once in two weeks,"
Edit: Two more articles in the same line.
Russia’s Space Satellite Problems and the War in Ukraine
Three months into Russia’s full-scale war of aggression against Ukraine, the role of Russian military reconnaissance and communications satellites remains noticeably underdeveloped. Although Moscow has 102 military satellites in orbit, the efficiency of its battlefield reconnaissance...
In Russia's War On Ukraine, Effective Satellites Are Few And Far Between
Russia has long been saddled with a small and inadequate fleet of communications and surveillance satellites that in many cases rely on outdated technology or on imported parts that are harder to come by as a result of Western sanctions.
www.rferl.org
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syscom3
Pacific Historian
Behind a paywall.The reason is that their recon/spy satellites are not that amazing
Why Russian Space Satellites Are Failing in the Ukraine War
Russia Has Unleashed a ‘Campaign of Missile Terror’ Due to Failing Satellites
Where are Moscow’s eyes in the skies?www.popularmechanics.com
"The Ukrainian army can use commercial systems to obtain images of any area in high detail at least twice a day in favorable weather conditions, whereas the Russian army can get an image of the same area approximately once in two weeks,"
Admiral Beez
Captain
Not for me. But here you go https://archive.is/jaPjz
syscom3
Pacific Historian
Yea, long enough to get shot at more frequently.
Jabberwocky
Staff Sergeant
The UAF is probably lucky the Tornados were scrapped. Fabulous aircraft when everything was working, but very prone to going wrong and an absolute maintenance hog in terms of manhours. The Typhoon, for all the bad press it's gotten, has something like 1/3rd the maintenance requirements, nearly twice the mean time between errors and nearly four times the interval between failures.
