Another 'Gem' from Greg - just released.
- Thread starter drgondog
- Start date
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33k in the air
Staff Sergeant
- 1,261
- Jan 31, 2021
The wind seems to be coming out of Gladwell's tail.
Off the ground and into the sea, what is your problem?
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Pretty sure B-29s were designed as aircraft, not submarines...
Multi role, all good designs are.
fubar57
General
The Russians perfected turning ships into submarines
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Birds love to splash about a bit. It keeps the plumage lovely.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Well, Poseidon's domain is water, after all
bse7entn
Airman
Got to see one of those which attempted to land at NAS JAX a few years back. Fortunately everyone was ok except the bird who took a drink.
That was not a P-8 though. It was a 737-800 which have no business being near the water.
bse7entn
Airman
Ah I'm remembering wrong then, thanks. Granted you couldn't exactly get a close view from the bridge.That was not a P-8 though. It was a 737-800 which have no business being near the water.
special ed
1st Sergeant
- 5,035
- May 13, 2018
My high school physics teacher (new that year) told the class that planes took off with tailwind to gather speed. After class I explained about lift and airflow over the wings. The next day, he corrected the statement. He was an Air Force veteran, probably ground pounder, he must have checked the facts.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
A third grade teacher of mine interrupted my book report, in front of the class, to correct me.
"Airplanes DO NOT carry torpedoes.
The book was the Sinking of the Bismarck.
"Airplanes DO NOT carry torpedoes.
The book was the Sinking of the Bismarck.
Bismarck was sunk by the Ems telegram, which ended the Franco Prussian war, or started it, something like that anyways.
33k in the air
Staff Sergeant
- 1,261
- Jan 31, 2021
The Ems telegram turned me into a newt! (I got better.)
Its the same platform. The P-8 was derived from the 737-800. The one that went off the runway at NAS Jax was a charter flight from Gitmo. It was largely weather related and pilot error.
Shortround6
Major General
This is not the first time that this has come up nor the idea that somehow the US (and Britain) were remiss in not designing and building escort fighters sooner. This seems to be a rather consistent complainant. I am not single out Planesandships here.
Problem is that complainers never tell where the planes for realistic peace time training were to come from, for the US especially.
As of Dec 7th 1941 the US had about 130-140 B-17s total, of all kinds, and they were scattered from Newfoundland (anti-sub patrol) to the Philippines so getting even two dozen together at one base might have been a real trick.
The US had about 20 or so B-24s and around 1/2 had turbos and 1/2 didn't so we can rule out formation flying with those. Things got better in a hurry but it was no longer peace time.
I would be very interested to see how the US would build escort fighters to escort even those early B-17s with the engines of the time (1938-39-40-41).
Not a casual wave of the hand and statement of "if they wanted to they could have done it."
P&W canceled the 14 cylinder R-2180 after about 30 engines. Probably would not have done the job anyway, also used the same cylinders/piston assemblies as the R-2800.
P&W was working on a 24 cylinder sleeve valve pre war but canceled it in Oct 1940 leaving the XP-49, XP-54 and XP-55 without their first engine.
Wright was working on the 42 cylinder R-2160 Tornado and after about 6.5 million dollars they gave up.
The USAAC fair-haired child, the 0-IV-V-1430 Continental was supposed to take up the slack but it was running several years late and making a lot less the promised power.
Meanwhile, Allison goes from making 40 engines in 1939 to making just under 15,000 engines in 1942. Goes a long way to saving the Allies bacon. But the 1942 production also needed a lot help from at least one Automobile plant (Cadillac) for internal parts. Nowadays gets blamed for not being quicker with a two stage supercharger
, 5000 fewer Allison in North Africa, Soviet union and the Pacific in 1942/early 43???Other companies and countries did a fantastic job but before 1939 Allison had not built more than 13/14 engines in a single year. Blaming them for not coming close to RR superchargers in 1942/43 is more than a little harsh.
So the challenge how does the US come up with an "escort" fighter in 1939 or 1940 or 1941 to accompany even the early B-17s in training. Part of the challenge is that unlike British bombers, the B-17Bs of 1939 had turbos and were going to cruise higher than any non turbo or non two stage engine of the time.
Now just for fun, figure out far a P-36 could return from, after dropping hypothetical drop tanks, with totally full internal fuel (CG adjusted to solve that problem, special fuel pump to allow for full fuel after the tanks are dropped.)
allow for 15 minutes of combat, not 20, and plan on 15 gallons reserve(30 min) to find and land on a friendly field at the end of the mission.
how far will that P-36 fly at what speeds and how many hundreds of miles less is that than the radius of a B-17?
Use the 10,000 ft altitudes of the P-36 and forget flying at high altitudes for the B-17s.
I don't care how much fuel you hang under the P-36, 150-200 gallons? the problem is how do you get back.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The P-36A did have good range for a fighter of that point in time but just about the only fighters capable of long range escort in the early years of the war, was the KI-43 and A6M and this was due to the long distances of Imperial Japan's Empire.
Shortround6
Major General
The Japanese fighters would cruise at under 200mph on even less fuel than the P-36 would, Great if you are flying long distance over water with no enemy fighters or AA guns.
It they had to fly faster, like in the mid 200s, their fuel burn got closer to the P-36 fuel burn.
Please note that these ranges are for a hypothetical range where the plane is magically, mystically transported the correct altitude and speed with an already warmed up engine and the range ends when the engine runs out of gas.
