B-17, B-24, or Lancaster

[Henk]

Yes, I think you do not have a 0% chance of surviving. It depends also on how you crash.

Henk

 

[evangilder]

Joe, I don't recall the B-17 ball turret having a mechanism to retract it. I know it did on the B-24, but have not seen it on the B-17s that I have been in.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Joe, I don't recall the B-17 ball turret having a mechanism to retract it. I know it did on the B-24, but have not seen it on the B-17s that I have been in.

You are right!!!

 

[evangilder]

No biggie, just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something.

 

[KraziKanuK]

I can't give a source, maybe Freeman.

The upper turret was not well behind the cockpit.

diagram, http://www.381st.org/aircraft-closeup.html More photos/daigrams here, http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=69780&sid=ed6859740d65b2d920d61b87d8c05863

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I can't give a source, maybe Freeman.

The upper turret was not well behind the cockpit.

diagram, http://www.381st.org/aircraft-closeup.html More photos/daigrams here, http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=69780&sid=ed6859740d65b2d920d61b87d8c05863

Great sites!

That was behind station 3D, I believe this is where the cockpit went together with the mid fuselage - it was behind the cockpit and although those pictures seem to show it over the cockpit it was several feet behind the pilot and co-pilot seats.

Bottom line - The turret, even if it came through the structure isn't coming down on the pilot....

 

[Glider]

Superb site.

 

[KraziKanuK]

Not several feet behind the pilots.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The pilots sat at where the skylight is - midway between b c on your drawing - from C to the middle of the turret is at least 4 feet, I've been on 2 B-17s with turrets, I've seen them!!!!

Once again - the turret WILL NOT fall on the pilot and the co=ipt during a crash!!

 

[KraziKanuK]

Well good for you.

As can bee seen very clearly, the pilots sat with their backs at the frame in the side windows, ~2.5 ft from the centre of the turret.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

As can bee seen very clearly, the pilots sat with their backs at the frame in the side windows, ~2.5 ft from the centre of the turret.

its a lot more than 2.5 feet but if thats what you think -OK.

I know Russ Owens, he flies Sentimental Journey, the last B-17 I was in. I may see him and the airplane at the end of April, if so i'll measure the distance.

Bottom line, the turret did not and will not fall on the pilot's heads!!

 

[syscom3]

In all of belly landing photo's of b17's Ive seen, there not one that shows the upper turret being damaged. The cockpit and turret have always been intact.

I have seen B24 belly landings in which the forward section was ripped from the center section, with the turret being pushed up or down.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

In all of belly landing photo's of b17's Ive seen, there not one that shows the upper turret being damaged. The cockpit and turret have always been intact.

I have seen B24 belly landings in which the forward section was ripped from the center section, with the turret being pushed up or down.

Agree!

 

[Henk]

Yes, I agree I have also never seen pictures that show the upper turret that were damaged.

Henk

 

[wmaxt]

Well good for you.

As can bee seen very clearly, the pilots sat with their backs at the frame in the side windows, ~2.5 ft from the centre of the turret.

I to, have been in a B-17 with a turret, on the ground unfortunately, and it is about 4'.

If you noticewhere those pictures were taken, that person is in front of the turret mount.

Another thing that must be considered is that the ring around the turret is mounted to the frame of the aircraft. This ring has to absorb the following
1, the Torque created turning the turret, several hundred pounds of rotational force maybe as high as 500lbs plus when it must reverse rotation.
2, Support the turret, gunner, controls, guns, ammo and framework.
3, Absorb the recoil

This is not a light structure!

wmaxt

 

[Henk]

Still the thing will not collapse in a bell crash landing.

Henk

 

[FLYBOYJ]

On an assembly cutaway featured in the Book Flying Fortress by David Jablonsky, the cockpit stations are labled numeric-alpha. Around where the pilot sits its shown as station 3C. Normally stations are numbered by inches and I believe that in this case each numeric-alpha station represents one foot. If seems the gun turret is at station 3G which would put it at four feet aft of the middle of the pilots seat.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Ah I hate stations. I hat them, hate them, hate them. FBJ knows what I talking about. Fucking Weight And Balance computations.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Ah I hate stations. I hat them, hate them, hate them. FBJ knows what I talking about. Fucking Weight And Balance computations.

Weight + Arm = Moment - Tare = ??
Yep!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And then everything falls out of limits and the real shit starts.