Best Aircraft in Many Different Roles Part II

[Juha]

Hello TEC
I know your message is humorous, but still had to say this on Anson
I like the plane but Faithful Annie wasn't good trainer, being much too easy to fly. That made it good transport but bad trainer. And Anson also fought pre-10 May 40 1:1 against Bf 110.

Juha

 

[tail end charlie]

Hello TEC
I know your message is humorous, but still had to say this on Anson
I like the plane but Faithful Annie wasn't good trainer, being much too easy to fly. That made it good transport but bad trainer. And Anson also fought pre-10 May 40 1:1 against Bf 110.

Juha

I was of course being tongue in cheek, however 11,000 were built which is many more than much more famous planes. Like the Dakota 11,000 +5000in Russia/japan and Wellington11,500 it performed a lot of the simple "gofer" duties that arnt dramatic but are vital. Also it had a use after the war some staying in use until the 60s.

 

[michaelmaltby]

My Uncle Arthur flew Ansons out of Windsor Mills, Quebec, at the outset of WW2 - training Navigators - before Ferry Command was organized - which he joined. There's more than one role for a "trainer", Juha.

MM

 

[Juha]

Hello MM
yes, I know it was also used as navigation trainer, I'm not sure how good it was in that role, being so much slower than combat types. IIRC it was also used to train WOs, in that her low speed probably did no harm.

But as said as a small transport its very benign handling characterics were a great plus. And during the war it showed that it wasn't so easy target to enemy fighters than its specs would indicate.

 

[ivanotter]

This may not be the "best" but surely one of the more un-sual roles:

This is quoted from "The war of a 100 days" by James Ambrose Brown on the first Allied successful campaign: Somalia and Abyssinia, 1940-41.

This little war was fought primarily with South African troops against Italian forces.

Quote: pg 78:

The story was already legenday. On 14 August 1940, Lt Charles Kearey was ordered to fly spare parts and mechanics to Lokitaung to repair a crashed Battle. He was pilot of a Vickers Valentia, a vintage biplane troop carrier used to convey mail and stores at a comfortable top speed of 90 mph. At Lokitaung an engineer boring for water pointed out an Italian fort only ten miles away in the hills.

"Pity I haven't a bomb to drop on it" Kearey said. "I'll make you one" said Lt Joe Lentzner. Around a core of 380 sticks of dynamite Lentzner packed scrap iron, a sewing machine, a car differential, nuts and bolts, all in a 44-gallon oil drum.

Kearey told the present author: "Lentzner crimpted the detonators into the dynamite with his teeth, removed the door of the valentia and stood the drum in the aperture. We put down mattresses to protect the bombadiers on the run-up to the target and took off in the dark, heading east for lake Rudolph. After circling for about twenty minutes until it grew light I told lentzner to stand by. I was starting my run-up right down on the tree tops and opened the valentia fullout. Straight at the fort and about 60 seconds away I shouted to Lentzner to light the 60-second fuse"

In the dawn light the towers of the fort twinkled with gunfire. Lt oscar Coetzee, along for the ride, was hit in the foot. Blood ran dwon Kearey's forehead from a gash from the splintering instrument panel.

"We were below the fort walls. As we came in with the fuse burning, I pulled the valentia up and over the courtyard at about a hundred feet. it was packed with sleeping soldiers. Lentzner and helpers yelled they couldn't get the drum out so I threw her on her side and out it tumbled. The blast lifted us with a tremendous jolt. I looked back to see a column of black smoke".

Back at Lokitaung, Kearey could not conceal the 93 hits on the Valentia's wood-and-fabtric body or the wounds to his crew. A Rome Radio broadcast amplified the old valentia into a squadron of RAF bombers attacking the fort and beaten off. By the time Moorehead heard of the legendary version six months later, the story concluded that the 'entire garrison' - over fifty men - was found dead in the abandoned fort by our troops"

No decorations were awarded for this exploit. It was 'severe reprimands' all round for the 'bombing crew' of Kearey's now legendary adventrure.
Quote end.

Now, that is an un-usual role for a Valentia and shows either brilliance or something else.

Thought this would enlighten your day, all.

Ivan.

PS: The Somalia and Abysinia campaign (1940-41) was a different war altogether and showed a high degree of coordiantion of air and ground troops.

 

[tomo pauk]

Perhaps that's where Croatian pilots ground crews got inspiration to transform An-2s (biplane transport, 1000 HP radial engine) into makeshift bombers, back in 1991. Electric water-heater steel body was used as a container for explosive scrap metal, while fusing was provided by multiple anti-tank mine's fuses.
So we listened sometimes to Radio-Belgrade news and laughing out loud when it was said that 'Serb units in Croatia were attacked with boiler bombs'. It was publicly unveiled in 1995 that was true.

 

[ivanotter]

That is an option - very good.

Although the An-2 did have a speed advantage of the Valentia. Well, even my bicycle has a speed advantage.

Just the idea of "thundering" towards your target at 90 mph with a bomb with a lit fuse. Sort of 60 seconds before it goes off.

if they were slow in run-in, it would really have ruined the day.

Amazing.

 

[fibus]

A Mosquito as a fighter could not turn with a 190 or 109. But any mk. mossie could outrun either at any altitude.
Other than specialised german night fighters it was the best nightfighter in the world. How does one classify it a as bomber? It could outperform any other 2 engine bomber in the world. And there was a dayfighter version and was the best high altitude reconplane in the world. My conclusions are comparing apples to apples. There are specific performance areas where aircraft like the P51 or Spitfire could better the mossie but not all mks of either. So overall I rate the Mosquito the best airplane of WW2.

 

[MaximusGR]

I think most here will agree that the modern aircraft that fits best to a wide variety of roles is the F-16. Looking back at WW2, the first warbird that comes to mind as somewhat similar in philosophy is the FW190 and its variants. Developed for one role for which it excelled, and then adapted to different needs in which it also was effective.

The Mosquito was a masterpiece, no doubt, but you cant vote for it if you have an environmental affection. It consumed forests to be built!!

 

[Mustang nut]

The Mosquito was a masterpiece, no doubt, but you cant vote for it if you have an environmental affection. It consumed forests to be built!!

Ha Ha Maximus I used to think De Havilland has a factory with trees going in one end and Mosquitos flying out the other in fact they were very special woods.
Having read the history of the Lancaster and the number of drawings needed i think all planes require the felling of huge numbers of trees

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Ok so just to check as I'm not reading through every page, we're all agreed on the Mosquito, right?

 

[Wayne Little]

Mossie sounds good to me!

 

[Kryten]

I tried to think of another candidate that was on a par with the mossie, but no avail, Ju88 was close but the Mossie was that much more accomplished!

 

[GregP]

I am a real fan of the Mitsubishi Ki-83 heavy escort fighter. It had two Ha-211 engines rated at 2,200 HP each and was fast at 438 mph (705 kph). It has two 20 mm plus two 30 mm cannons, so it was heavily armed.

Unfortunately for Japan, they only completed four before the war ended, so it isn't a viable candidate ...

But as a "what if," it shines with possibilities.

View attachment 179558

Of the real candidiates, I have to go with the P-38 for fighter-like duties and the Mosquito for other-than-fighter-like duties. with the most versatile of all probably being the Ju-88. Looking at the title of this thread, I'd opt for the Ju 88 as the one used in more roles than any other, most if not all to good effect.

The Mossies and P-38's were great planes, but the Ju 88 was pressed into service for almost ANYTHING from glider tug, to shooting vertically oriented cannons, to radio glide bombing controller, to night fighter, to day fighter in some cases, bomber, anti-submarine, fast transport for VIP's, divie bombing, pathfinding, experimental test horse for new improvements in engines and weaponery, as bomb! (the mistel units) and the bomb controller (one Ju 88 being used to control another Ju 88 mistel), radar test mule, recon, liaison, courier, and several more missions. That's a large list and I doubt either the P-38 or the Mosquito were called upon by their users to perform so many duties.

Perhaps it was of necessity, but the Ju 88 answered the call each and every time, with surprisingly good results in almost all cases.

No disrepect to either the P-38 or Mosquito; they were great planes. Just not quite as versatile, if only by dint of not being asked to be quite as versatile by the users. If they had been in German service, maybe they WOULD have been asked to do all these missions, but they weren't in the war as actually employed.

 

[Edgar Brooks]

The only roles, for the Mosquito, missing from that lot, are vertical cannons (not needed with four horizontal,) glide bomb controller (not needed with the Lancaster capable of lobbing a 6-ton Tallboy into a warship,) dive bombing (bit of a fine line, since some might consider 8 rockets to be equivalent to a divebombing attack,) bomb and bomb controller (see Tallboy note, earlier.)
However, did the Ju-88 ever manage to carry a 4,000 bomb (twice in a night) to Britain's capital city? Did it ever break prisoners free, and take out single buildings in the middle of a town? Did it ever land on aircraft carrier, during anti-shipping training? Did it ever carry a 57mm gun? Was it ever fitted with folding wings, for carrier use?
There was, also, the ECM work, weather reconnaiscance, and the ability, at night, to take out enemy nightfighters without recourse to radar.
Edgar

 

[Ratsel]

To add to GregP's post about the JU 88:

RATO! Increases the bomb payload alot.

 

[Edgar Brooks]

Perhaps you can explain how needing the assistance of rockets, to get off the ground with a reasonable bomb load, makes an aircraft more versatile? I'd call it struggling for speed/lift.
Edgar

 

[Ratsel]

yah your right.. being able to go well beyond bomb payload capacity with bolt-on rocket assist is not versatile

Kindest Regards

 

[Shortround6]

If the rockets can get you out of a very small field then it is versatile, If you need the rockets to get out of a normal field with a respectable bomb load and fuel then they are a crutch because your normal engines aren't powerful enough.

The Ju 88 may have been versatile or forced to do a lot of jobs but a bomb truck it wasn't. Weren't the rockets used on the A2 version? 1200hp engines?

 

[GregP]

Breaking prisoners out of a building is just a precision strike mission, nothing more.

The Ju 88 was definitely able to and did fly precision strikes. It well might have landed on a carrier if Germany had one ... but they didn't so I very much doubt that one.

In normal operations the Ju 88 was asked to do many missions. In extraordinary operations, the M<osquito proved to be adaptable. Mostly it flew only 2 - 3 mission types, with forays into other missions as required. The Ju 88 flew a wide variety every day in normnal operations.

Why don't we just say that you are Mosquito fan and let it go at that? I like 'em, too.