best fighter of ww II

[the lancaster kicks ass]

easily.................

 

[Lightning Guy]

P-38L would out-run, out-dive, and out turn it.

 

[lesofprimus]

And the -38 would probably end up getting shot outta the sky as well....

 

[Lightning Guy]

I am happy to discuss which aircraft we THINK are best. As I've mentioned before, however, best is a very subjective term. Best at what mission? At what altitude? In which weather conditions? At which part of the war? All of these things should factor into the thinking as to which fighter should be considered best. But when all is said and done, we are still left with an opinion. That being said, I've voiced my opinion and am all to happy to listen to and discuss others.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

ok then, in my opinion, the P-38 doesn't deserve the title of best fighter...........

 

[Lightning Guy]

That's an opinion. Do you have any reasons to support it? I try and always include some rationale behind my posts.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i fell it had less of an impact on the war than say, i don't know, the mossie for example.................

 

[Maestro]

i fell it had less of an impact on the war than say, i don't know, the mossie for example.................

... Or the Spitfire or the Mustang.

 

[Lightning Guy]

Okay. That is an argument. The Mossie, however, was not a fighter or (at best) a fighter of limited impact. The only true fighters were the night fighter marks and they were two specialised in their mission to have much of an impact.

The Mustang did not enter combat until the war was half over and the defenitive D model wasn't around until the war was 2/3 over. Furthermore, it neither saw the widespread service nor posessed the multimission capability of the Lightning.

The Spitfire is probably a better choice that either of these two but I still feel it inferior to the Lightning it the limited strategic ability it could play due to its limited range.

 

[Gemhorse]

That was really well put, LG, about rationale etc. - As I said earlier, this topic really doesn't include the Mosquito, but I suppose the P-38 being a s/seater, it WAS more a Fighter. - As for the Mustang, I believe that it DID play a very definitive role in the War, the 'D' series was really it's 'icing on the cake' model...While May 1942 may have been the Mustang's entry date into action with the RAF, it's replacement of the P-40 heralded the arrival of an aircraft whose ultimate contribution to eventual Allied victory was inestimable ! The early model was good for 375 mph initally [ the Spit was good for 340 mph then], and while these models weren't the bee's knee's over 15,000 ft, it partnered-up to Allied requirements admirably, on all Fronts...The P-38's best theatre was the Pacific, no doubt about that...the P-51's earlier models contribution to low-level combat, attacks and recce, was huge in Europe and the Far East and also the Med. For those who flew them, they were the gloves that fitted all pilots, and overall had very few vices. - Although the P-51 didn't have a vast line of variants, that was a testament perhaps of it's success, something they realised right back at it's prototypes...'It's a winner !', being essentially an aircraft specifically designed for purchase by Britain. - I find it very hard to make a choice between the Spitfires and the Mustangs, they were both superb aircraft of noble lineage, created under the pressure of War, against a formidable enemy. The P-38 never really totally achieved the fame the Mustang did, but I still think they were Exceptional Fighters...Often in combat, it's the pilot that makes the plane...
While I loved the Fw-190's, both them and Bf-109's cannot achieve 'Best Fighter' or else we'd all be talking German, wouldn't we ?
- The 'Best Fighter' would be an overall winner. - I think one serious contender would be the Corsair, an aircraft our Kiwi pilots had alot to do with in the Pacific...Our guys used to dogfight with the Aussies, who had P-51D's...the F4U's could outmanoevre the P-51's, turning inside them, due to their higher lift wing section; - both had extremely long-range, bordering on 8 hrs, but due to the power [2250 hp against 1,590 hp in the P-51], the Corsairs used and carried about 50% more fuel... but they were also roomier and cooler, and there was the 'radial vs inline bullet-damage factor' too...but then, the P-51 could pull away in a high-speed dive....The Corsair, Lightning and Hellcat were big fighters, the Spitfire and Mustang were smaller, and they could really perform for such compact aircraft....[/u]

 

[Lightning Guy]

All excellent points.

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html

This link should direct you to an excellent article focusing on the P-51 v. F4U issue. I found in very interesting. Most interesting to myself where the things mentioned about the P-38's ability to turn, climb, dive, and accelerate. And if you want to talk endurance, the P-38 was the final word for WWII fighters with the L flying missions lasting up to 10 hours in the Pacific.

It is interesting to me that Martin Caidin describes his book as "Fork-Tailed Devil: The P-38" as being "the full story of the best American fighter plan of WWII." Martin Caidin is a serious student of aviation and this it no faint praise. Capt. Heiden who flew both the P-38 and the P-51 preferred the P-38 for its superior rate of climb, power, and stall characteristics. He also notes that the P-51 could not do anything better than the P-38. My question is this, if the P-51 deserves to be considered for the 'Best Fighter' title and the P-38 could outperform it in virtualy every catergory, why not consider the P-38 for the same title?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

While I loved the Fw-190's, both them and Bf-109's cannot achieve 'Best Fighter' or else we'd all be talking German, wouldn't we ?

absolutly not
1) hitlet had no plans to make us change language, he didn't make the
french do it
2) weight of numbers beat them, it wasn't because they werte bad fighters................

 

[Maestro]

While May 1942 may have been the Mustang's entry date into action with the RAF, it's replacement of the P-40 heralded the arrival of an aircraft whose ultimate contribution to eventual Allied victory was inestimable ! The early model was good for 375 mph initally [ the Spit was good for 340 mph then], and while these models weren't the bee's knee's over 15,000 ft, it partnered-up to Allied requirements admirably, on all Fronts...

Two things...

First, you mistaken on the entry date into action of the Mustang... I always heard of it as first used in 1944. In fact, the P-51B entered just in time for the beginning of Operation Overlord (wich began in April 1944).

Second, I don't know wich Mark of the Spitfire you compared with wich Mark of the Mustang, but they both had quite the same speed. Taken from one of my books (the planes compared are the P-51B and the Spitfire Mk. IX) :

"[...] With the same engines adjustments, the Mustang was faster than the Spitfire, at any altitude (30 to 45 km/h). With the engine pushed to the maximum (around 3,000 RPM), the speed was the same between 10 and 15,000 feet, and between 25,000 and 32,000 feet. [...]"

Note : The top speed of the Spitfire Mk. IX at 25,000 feet is 408 MpH.

 

[Lightning Guy]

Both the P-38L and the P-51D had a speed of 437 mph at 25,000ft.

 

[Maestro]

LG, if you want to compare the latest fighters, then we'll compare the P-38L or the P-51D to the Spitfire Mk. XIV or Mk. XVIII. I think their speed would be quite the same.

 

[johnny]

Can only be 1. the P-51D Mustang. Was the best looking one too.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The P-38L had the Spit (any mark) on range (read stratefic value), payload, firepower, durability, diving ability, level speed and climb were probably pretty close and the L could nearly match a Spit in a turn but didn't have to worry about any torque flicking it out of a turn into a spin.

 

[johnny]

If the P-38 was that good howcome it was not used extensively on long range escort for the 8th Airforce.They waited for the P-51B didnt they?

 

[evangilder]

Actually, the P-38 started bomber escort missions from the 15th AF (Italy) even before the complete surrender of the Italians. They started bomber escort missions into Germany from the 15th AF in February of 1944. The P-38s in the 8th did fly bomber escort missions. The first P-38 escort mission to Berlin occurred on March 3, 1944, flown by the 55th FG.

 

[johnny]

But the mustang was already escorting bombers in late '43 wasnt it.