Best Long Range Fighter of WWII

[Lucky13]

They could be fitted with drop tanks though, right? Also, didn't the Ta 152H-1 carry almost the same amount of fuel as the Mustang?

Found the answer to my own question here by myself....
"Fuel capacity was 595 liters for the H-0 model with the option of a 300 liter drop tank on the centerline. The H-1 model carried an additional 470 liters of fuel in six unprotected bag tanks in the wings, but typically one of these tanks was used to hold the MW 50 methanol-water mixture. The H-1 could also carry a 300 or 600 liter centerline droptank."

 

[drgondog]

No comments about the P38's?

After all, they flew the longest fighter missions of the war.

If the P-38L had been available in 1943 instead of mid 1944 we might have seen a different perspective. The supercharger issues blowing up Allisons at high altitude/low temp conditions made it pretty easy for Doolittle to give the 38's to 9th AF so it just didn't meet expectations.

Right or wrong ETO Daylight Operations 1943-1945 is THE standard for high threat environment. Had the late model 47D's been in operations in Jan 1944, we might not be talking about the Mustang - but it didn't arrive until most of the other 47 Groups in 8th AF were slotted to transition to 51s.

In the interim the Mustangs were incredibly effective with small numbers and got more effective as more groups converted and reliability improved in April/May.

Yep the 38's flew some long escort in ETO but the 51s did about the same. The May 13, 1944 mission flown by 355th FG was 1490 miles to Schloppe Poland and back. I thinkthe 38's flew one just over 1500 miles.

I'm thinking the P-47N flew a longer escort to Japan (or Okinawa before Iwo Jima) but I'm memory challenged right now.

Regards,

Bill

 

[syscom3]

The May 13, 1944 mission flown by 355th FG was 1490 miles to Schloppe Poland and back. I thinkthe 38's flew one just over 1500 miles.

1500 miles was the RT figure for the Poznan (schloppe) mission.

In the PTO, P38's were flying 2000 mile RT missions regularly, with on occasion 3000 miles missions.

 

[Lucky13]

DAMN!! Sore arse after those missions, eh?

 

[Erich]

don't forget that the Pioneer Mustang group the 354th fg had the P-51B and was nailing Luftw a/c right and left, so impressed was the US 8th AF of this small 9th AF fighter unit the powers to be bagged the Mustangs from the unit for up and evolving 8th fighter groups and the 9th AF had the P-47 till January/February of 45 until the unit gleefully gave their Jugs mounts to other 9th AF units. the 354th fg hated the Jug.

so what we have here is a personal preference from the hot shot highest scoring ETO fg in the war............they wanted the P-51 not the P-47. Sorry guys but it is true. have had the plesure of researching this unit as it is from my little home state and chatting with ace K. Gross several times and C.Salter. K. Dahlberg is next an ace with 10 kills

 

[syscom3]

For the ETO: P51

For the PTO: P38

 

[drgondog]

DAMN!! Sore arse after those missions, eh?

Actually my father's longest (seat time) missions were in order D-Day 7:50 Area Patrol, 8:00 on Area Patrol in Evereaux area on June 8 and 7:50 to Piryatin, Russia on 18 september.

Syscom - I was only referring to ETO missions for both the 38s and 51s.

What were the long range profiles for the P-38 escorts on the 2,000 and 3,000 mile escort missions? (from where to where, and where did the 38s R/V the bombers ie "200 miles from target" ??)

The 51's could do a 2,000 miler w/ferry tanks but not 3,000

Erich - as you probably know Doolittle went to the mat to get the 354FG from 9th AF but was 'only' able to get 357FG in exchange for 358FG which was operational 47 group before 357 cranked up. Not a bad trade. And yes the 354FG HATED the Jug even though it was more survivable to flak.

Regards,

Bill

 

[Erich]

yes I know about the incident Bill, the 354th guys did not really care one way or the other but the 8th did get a hot shot group without a doubt - the 357th

several of the 354th guys to this day are pretty pissed off that they in the 9th AF were termed as dive-bomber boys a trait the 354th fg never liked nor felt were suited for, they wanted 1 to 1 with the Luftw.

 

[syscom3]

The P38's were flying from Middleburg Island (Sansapor) to Balikpapin in Borneo and Morotai to Balikpapin.

I believe there were some missions from Biak to Balikpapin but not sure.

Some were for bomber escort, others for fighter sweeps.

 

[drgondog]

The P38's were flying from Middleburg Island (Sansapor) to Balikpapin in Borneo and Morotai to Balikpapin.

I believe there were some missions from Biak to Balikpapin but not sure.

Some were for bomber escort, others for fighter sweeps.

The Max range would probably have been a Fighter Sweep to enable strict cruise pretty much to target with ferry tanks - would be my guess. Having to "S" over B-24's would have absorbed a lot of range potential.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Lucky13]

How much did they improve the range of the P-38's after Lindberghs visit?

 

[syscom3]

The Max range would probably have been a Fighter Sweep to enable strict cruise pretty much to target with ferry tanks - would be my guess. Having to "S" over B-24's would have absorbed a lot of range potential.

Thanks,

Bill

At this years Chino Airshow, I talked to a 5th BG pilot, and he said that on a several of his long range missions (over 1000 miles) they had fighter escort over the target which was Balipapin or Tarakan.

And it still doesn't matter what plane you're using to have direct overhead escort.

Both used pretty much the same amount of fuel per hour.

 

[syscom3]

How much did they improve the range of the P-38's after Lindberghs visit?

They nearly doubled the endurance.

 

[drgondog]

At this years Chino Airshow, I talked to a 5th BG pilot, and he said that on a several of his long range missions (over 1000 miles) they had fighter escort over the target which was Balipapin or Tarakan.

And it still doesn't matter what plane you're using to have direct overhead escort.

Both used pretty much the same amount of fuel per hour.

I have a tendency to agree with you but I believe the consumption per hour for a 51 was less than the 38 with two allisons at cruise vs 1 PMerlin at cruise, I could be wrong. In any case for the 'overhead' escort they weren't making progress any faster than the B-24 they were covering while they were covering it.

Per pound of fuel carried the 51 went further than the 47 or the 38 - aeordynamics being the big factor.

Regards,

Bill

 

[Erich]

Bill are we talking with the use of external aluminum or paper tanks on the Mustang ? or furthering the range even more ........ ?

 

[syscom3]

I have a tendency to agree with you but I believe the consumption per hour for a 51 was less than the 38 with two allisons at cruise vs 1 PMerlin at cruise, I could be wrong. In any case for the 'overhead' escort they weren't making progress any faster than the B-24 they were covering while they were covering it.

Per pound of fuel carried the 51 went further than the 47 or the 38 - aeordynamics being the big factor.

Regards,

Bill

The P38 had a higher payload than the P51, thus could fly further.

 

[Lucky13]

Cheers Syscom....

 

[xelanhua]

uugggleee little bubble plane, but if it good enough for the Tuskegees it good enough for me to vote in.
x

 

[lesofprimus]

The Tuskegees lived under the shadow of a lie for decades.... Voting for that aircraft on that basis alone is incomprehensible...

 

[timshatz]

2000 miles in a P51 or a P38. Figure you are averaging your cruise speed of 200mph ( no basis beyond occasional conversations with people). So that is 10 hours in cockpit about the same size as the seat in an NFL stadium. And at the halfway point (5 hours in) you put your body through a boxing match (complete with sweat and beatings).

Cripes man, you gotta be 20 years old to do that. I've done 2 hours in a radial engined trainer and my butt was numb.