Best Naval Fighter

[wmaxt]

The Kamakizi were never viable as a wepon, it's not possible to trade a pilot and airplane even for something as large as a ship. The fact that it was many pilots/planes for each strike and may take several strikes made it even worse.

Even dumber they were used tacticaly and not strategicaly. Had they gone for the non armored troop ships and munition ships they would have made major impact on war plans as well as attitudes tword the war - maybe even better surender terms.

 

[Anonymous]

The Kamakizi were never viable as a wepon, it's not possible to trade a pilot and airplane even for something as large as a ship. The fact that it was many pilots/planes for each strike and may take several strikes made it even worse.

Even dumber they were used tacticaly and not strategicaly. Had they gone for the non armored troop ships and munition ships they would have made major impact on war plans as well as attitudes tword the war - maybe even better surender terms.

More likely they'd have gotten themselves a 3rd nuke.

 

[lesofprimus]

Yup.....

 

[evangilder]

There were no surrender terms. We demanded unconditional surrender, even when they tried to negotiate. It may have prolonged the war, but I doubt there woudl have been any negotiated peace. There was way too much distrust.

 

[Anonymous]

It was not so much distrust. The IJA didn't want to accept surrender because it surely meant their loss of power in Japan. When Hirohito finally decided to surrender, a faction of the IJA tried to institude a coup to stop him.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[DaveB.inVa]

I have to go back to the F-4U4 as best, it still held it's own in the '58/'59 for the French. I also seem to remember a skirmish in the late '60s but I can't remember for sure - maybe LG has the info as a Coursair buff.

Your thinking of the 1969 "Soccer War" between Honduras and El Salvador. One Honduran pilot Capt. Fernando Soto had 3 kills during this short war flying an F4U-5. His first kill was an El Salvadorian P-51D. Two P-51's were attacking Sotos wingman whos guns were jammed. Soto went after the two when one P-51 broke right and tried to outturn Soto. Soto was able to turn inside the P-51 and put a burst of 20mm cannon fire into the P-51 blowing its wing off.

Later the same day Soto made two kills against El Salvadorian FG-1 Corsairs. The first kill came as Soto and his wingman spotted the FG-1's and dove on them from above, he fired into one Corsair and it caught fire with the pilot bailing out. Soto shot past the second Corsair and it was soon on his tail. He kept trying to shake the El Salvadorian Corsair but couldnt, he finally performed a split-S and pulled out of it halfway through. The El Salvadorian Corsair continued with the split-S and Soto was then able to get on his tail. Sotos first burst of 20mm cannon fire blew off an aileron, while his second burst exploded the El Salvadorian Corsair.

 

[wmaxt]

More likely they'd have gotten themselves a 3rd nuke.[/quote]

Possibly. My reference was to earlier invasions before we had/just getting operational nukes Okinawa and Iwo Jima included. The loss of life would have impacted the US attitude to the war. Of course it could have had the opposite effect to! Happily we'll never know.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The Kamikaze were unlikely to change the course of the war, but I can understand the rational behind it. It was clear to the military leaders in Japan that they were in a desporate situation and desporate measures were required. Add in the hatred and fear of Americans Japanese propoganda produced, the national code of honor, and a religious desire to die for the emperor and its not so hard to understand.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

there we cirtainly no shortage of volenteers...............

 

[Lightning Guy]

No there wasn't. There really wasn't that much of a shortage of aircraft. The Japanese had stockpiled something like 10,000 aircraft of various types to be used in Kamikaze attacks in defense of the home islands. Had the Japanese turned them loose on the invasion beaches, the results would have been absolutely horrific.

 

[Anonymous]

No there wasn't. There really wasn't that much of a shortage of aircraft. The Japanese had stockpiled something like 10,000 aircraft of various types to be used in Kamikaze attacks in defense of the home islands. Had the Japanese turned them loose on the invasion beaches, the results would have been absolutely horrific.

Many, in fact most, of those aircraft were quite obsolete. The pilots they had to fly them were grossly inexperianced. US air superiorty would have been nearly absolute, newer and better radar aimed guns on dedicated AA ships were being deployed. Those planes would have had to reach the invasion fleet, and then actually hit those ships, and very few would have succeeded. Yes they would have inflicted losses, but I think it would have been far fewer than implied in your post.

The massive pre-invasion gas attacks planned for use against the Japanese had an invasion been necessary would have been truly horrific. An estimated 5 million civilian deaths minimum, with over 10 million probable. Gas shells would also have been used against the beaches and other Japanese positions.

Also, I kinda wonder if, after having gassed a Port really hard, it could not then have been taken nearly intact by paratroopers + landing forces?

American losses would probably have ranged between 300 and 500 thousand had an invasion of Japan been necessary. But Japanese losses would probably have run well over 25 million, and there would have been nothing left of the Japanese culture at all.

The A-bomb was the best thing that ever happened to the Japanese. I know that sounds heartless, but it is really the truth.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but the entire japaneese population (don'y know how many that was but let's just say it's not a small ammount) would be waiting for the americans, ready to attack.............

 

[mosquitoman]

The kamikaze weren't volunteers, it was a choice between death and the disgrace of them and their family. If they refused or came back alive they were shunned by japanese society

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but they were more than willing to pay the ultimate sacrifice for the good of their nation..........

 

[mosquitoman]

For their families, not for their nation

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

no it was just as much for their nation.........

 

[evangilder]

Actually, there was no shortage of volunteers. They were ordered to return if they could not find a target. There is an excellent book about it called Kamikaze by Raymond Lamont-Brown. I have been reading it off and on for awhile.

 

[Anonymous]

but the entire japaneese population (don'y know how many that was but let's just say it's not a small ammount) would be waiting for the americans, ready to attack.............

It is highly doubtful there would have been that many able to attack after suffering extended Sarin gas and Anthrax attacks. Without the A-bomb the invasion of Japan was going to be one of absolute annihilation of the Japanese people and culture. The Japanese were totally unprepared to defend against such weapons.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[evangilder]

Keep in mind that there were several options on the table, including the use of gas. Would it have actually been used is pure speculation now, thankfully. But Sarin was not mentioned in the report and Antrax is a biological weapon, not chemical. The gases mentioned in the report were phosgene, hydrogen cyanide and mustard gas.

 

[Lightning Guy]

I've read reports that the Japanese were planning on using chemical and biological weapons against the Americans had there been an invasion.