Best Naval Fighter

[lesofprimus]

So have I... It would have been a horrible situation if it came down to it.... Give what credit u can to Truman for having the balls to drop Man and Boy....

 

[evangilder]

Yes, LG, I have seen that as well. I also read that they found somewhere in the range of 7,000 kamikaze planes in caves, ready for use. It would have been ugly, real ugly.

 

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that there were several options on the table, including the use of gas. Would it have actually been used is pure speculation now, thankfully. But Sarin was not mentioned in the report and Antrax is a biological weapon, not chemical. The gases mentioned in the report were phosgene, hydrogen cyanide and mustard gas.

The British were going to supply Sarin gas. They had huge quantities of it. Anthrax was also developed and available in large quantities in Britain. Churchill had wanted to use it in late 1944 against the Germans but the USAAF (who was to deliver it) dawdled on providing delivery containers and by the time they were available, it was no longer necessary as Germany was on the verge of capitulation. Both weapons were available for use against Japan.

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Lunatic

 

[Anonymous]

I've read reports that the Japanese were planning on using chemical and biological weapons against the Americans had there been an invasion.

Japan's bio weapons were, for the most part, not in deliverable form. The exception to this would be their "flea bombs", which were of questionable battlefield value (they were more for attack on civilian population centers). As far as I know, Japan had no significant chem-weapons capability, and no meaningful defenses against them either.

Research Unit 731 a bit and you will see what they had and what they didn't have.

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Lunatic

 

[evangilder]

Britain did NOT have huge supplies of Sarin gas. It was one of the G agents that the Germans developed and they only had about a half a ton that was discovered when the Germans surrendered. The report in question mentioned poison gas, but biological weapons were not mentioned.

 

[Anonymous]

Britain did NOT have huge supplies of Sarin gas. It was one of the G agents that the Germans developed and they only had about a half a ton that was discovered when the Germans surrendered. The report in question mentioned poison gas, but biological weapons were not mentioned.

You are right, the British didn't have Sarin. My mistake (I should look these things up but sometimes get lazy).

They did have huge stores of Mustard Gas which was to be mixed with diisopropylfluorophosphate (DFP), a nerve gas agent making the mustard gas more deadly and also reducing its tendancy to freeze. This was less immeadiatly deadly than Sarin, but much more persistant.

As for anthrax,

With a real war on, the American Chemical Warfare Service, with British assistance, built up biowarfare research facilities, including test stations near Dugway and near Pascagoula, Mississippi; a potential production facility at Vigo, near Terra Haute, Indiana; and the master research and development center at Camp Dietrich, Maryland.

The British work on anthrax, or "N" as it was codenamed, as a weapon led in 1943 to the design of an "N" bomb suitable for mass production by the Americans. This munition weighed 1.8 kilograms (4 pounds). 106 of these "bomblets" were to be packed into a 225 kilogram (500 pound) cluster-bomb canister and dropped over enemy population centers.

The whole effort was protected by the highest level of secrecy, TOP SECRET:GUARD, which the Americans described jokingly as DESTROY BEFORE READING. An initial pilot batch of 5,000 N bombs was produced at Camp Dietrich in May 1944, and medium-scale production at a rate of about 50,000 bomblets a month followed. The bomblets were turned over to the British, who stockpiled them.
http://www.skrewdriver.net/anthrax.html

Project "Vegitarian" is also of interest, which involved dropping of Anthrax "cakes" for consumption by German cattle, which would wipe out the German dairy and beef industries and spread infection to the German population potentially killing millions.

Clearly the "N" bombs were available in large quantities and had Chemical weapons been used against the Japanese, I see no reason to believe these would not also have been employed.

You can find a lot of other sources on the Anthrax projects by simply searching on "Anthrax Churchill".

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Lunatic

 

[evangilder]

If you are going to "correct" someone, shouldn't you check your facts first?

You are going on assumption only with regards to bioweapons being used on the Japanese. The report with the plan clearly stated poison gas. No mention was made of any bio-weapons. Bio-weapons also take time to kill. The goal was for quick kills, using the gases mentioned, the gases would also embed in the pores of the wood construction of the homes in the cities, making them essentially uninhabitable.

 

[Anonymous]

If you are going to "correct" someone, shouldn't you check your facts first?

You are going on assumption only with regards to bioweapons being used on the Japanese. The report with the plan clearly stated poison gas. No mention was made of any bio-weapons. Bio-weapons also take time to kill. The goal was for quick kills, using the gases mentioned, the gases would also embed in the pores of the wood construction of the homes in the cities, making them essentially uninhabitable.

I didn't mean to be "correcting" someone, only providing new info. Again, sorry for the error.

As stated in the caption I quoted above, the whole Anthrax project was of the highest security. The chem weapons plans were not revealed until quite recently and any plan to use Anthrax would have been of even higher secrecy. The intention of using such weapons has been denied until proof has been revealed.

Also, weaponized Antrax incapacitates very quickly (a few hours to a day) and kills rather quickly too (a few days). It's a very nasty weapon, and yes it would have made regions uninhabitable for decades.

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Lunatic

 

[plan_D]

That's why poison gas, of any kind, wasn't used by the Germans during World War II. Heinz Guderian rightly stated, gas slows the advance because your own troops have to wait for it to clear. 8)

 

[evangilder]

Yep, or everyone has to wear gas masks during the advance. That slows the advance as well because visibility in masks is greatly reduced. I sure wouldn't have wanted to fight that way.

 

[NightHawk]

How about this 1 M6A1 'Seiran',
Miscellaneous
Crew: 2
Span: 12.27 meters
Length: 11.64 meters
Height: 4.58 meters
Wing surface: 27.00 sq m.
Wing load: 150 kg/sq m
Weight empty: 3 301 kg
Weight loaded: 4 040 kg


Propulsion
Power (total): 1 400 HP
Specific power: 347 HP / tonne
Maximum speed: 474 kph
Service ceiling: 9 900 meters
Range: 1 189 km
1 Aichi Atsuta 32 engine (1 400 HP)
Production
From: October of 1944
Until: July of 1945
Quantity: 26 examples
First flight: October of 1943


Armament
2 x 250 kg (551-lbs) bombs
1 x 13.2mm Type 2 machine gun

Aichi M6A1 Seiran
Seiran (Clear Sky Storm) is the only submarine-borne aircraft built anywhere in the world with offensive missions as its primary role. Its wings and tail folding system for tight storage. Wings swiveled to lie flat against fuselage. Could be readied for flight in seven minutes by four maintenance people. Florescent paint was applied to all moving parts for night operations.

The war ended before it could fly its first mission. Flying from large I-400 Class Subs, of 4,500 tons from a watertight hanger capable of accommodating two attack aircraft, and a catapult on the forward deck, five were ordered, with an enlarged hanger for three planes. Plans were formulated to bomb the Panama Canal's lock gates and Navy Anchorage at Ulithi.

About 30 Seirans were built, only one example, M6A1 1600228 exisits today in the National Air Space Museum collection, at the Udvat-Hazy Center.

 

[plan_D]

It can hardly be considered the best naval fighter of World War 2 when it didn't see any action, it wasn't a fighter and there were only 5 built. Impressive idea though.

 

[evangilder]

Taking out the Panama canal lock gates would have been a really bad thing for the allies! But I agree, plan_d, sounds more like a light bomber aircraft than a fighter to me.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i wouldn't call it a fighter with 1 mg..............

 

[cheddar cheese]

Nah me neither...but it looks pretty cool 8) And like plan_D said, it was a novel idea.

 

[Anonymous]

That's why poison gas, of any kind, wasn't used by the Germans during World War II. Heinz Guderian rightly stated, gas slows the advance because your own troops have to wait for it to clear. 8)

It wasn't used as an offensive tactical weapon because of the reasons stated. It wasn't used against Britain for fear of retaliation. It wasn't used against the Russians as they invaded Germany because Hitler didn't want to be remembered as the man who made Germany an unlivable wasteland (many German commanders did want to use it againt the Russians).

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Lunatic

 

[Anonymous]

How about this 1 M6A1 'Seiran',

Aichi M6A1 Seiran
Seiran (Clear Sky Storm) is the only submarine-borne aircraft built anywhere in the world with offensive missions as its primary role. Its wings and tail folding system for tight storage. Wings swiveled to lie flat against fuselage. Could be readied for flight in seven minutes by four maintenance people. Florescent paint was applied to all moving parts for night operations.

The war ended before it could fly its first mission. Flying from large I-400 Class Subs, of 4,500 tons from a watertight hanger capable of accommodating two attack aircraft, and a catapult on the forward deck, five were ordered, with an enlarged hanger for three planes. Plans were formulated to bomb the Panama Canal's lock gates and Navy Anchorage at Ulithi.

About 30 Seirans were built, only one example, M6A1 1600228 exisits today in the National Air Space Museum collection, at the Udvat-Hazy Center.

That was the Navy plan for it. The Army wanted to use them to deliver plauge ridden fleas to US cities using specialized flea dispensing bombs, but the IJN would not cooperate with the IJA.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[plan_D]

Actually, Hitler wanted a lot of scorched earth policies doing some including gas until his generals refused on a GRAND scale. Then he thought better of being remembered as the man who destroyed Germany

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

How about this 1 M6A1 'Seiran',

Aichi M6A1 Seiran
Seiran (Clear Sky Storm) is the only submarine-borne aircraft built anywhere in the world with offensive missions as its primary role. Its wings and tail folding system for tight storage. Wings swiveled to lie flat against fuselage. Could be readied for flight in seven minutes by four maintenance people. Florescent paint was applied to all moving parts for night operations.

The war ended before it could fly its first mission. Flying from large I-400 Class Subs, of 4,500 tons from a watertight hanger capable of accommodating two attack aircraft, and a catapult on the forward deck, five were ordered, with an enlarged hanger for three planes. Plans were formulated to bomb the Panama Canal's lock gates and Navy Anchorage at Ulithi.

About 30 Seirans were built, only one example, M6A1 1600228 exisits today in the National Air Space Museum collection, at the Udvat-Hazy Center.

That was the Navy plan for it. The Army wanted to use them to deliver plauge ridden fleas to US cities using specialized flea dispensing bombs, but the IJN would not cooperate with the IJA.

=S=

Lunatic

wow that's a scary thought...........

 

[cheddar cheese]

Its a strange thought Flea bombs?