Best NFL Running Back of all times?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 5, 2009

Doughboy said:
How about the same thread for Coaches in the game...?

That would be a good idea.

Then make one...

timshatz · May 5, 2009

Gonna end up with Lombardy somewhere in the top 3, if not the guy. Hell, the Supe trophy is named after him.

renrich · May 5, 2009

I am an SMU guy and I watched Eric Dickerson his whole career. He holds all the SWC rushing records and he only played half the time(split time with Craig James.) He never played on an NFL team with a solid offense and holds the NFL single season rushing record. If he had played on the Cowboys with all their offensive weapons he would have truly been something. There is no question in my mind, Jim Brown is the best ever.

drgondog · May 5, 2009

I have to say Jimmy (Brown) - after that there are a host at next tier including Barry, Emmit, Earl, Walter, Gayle, Tony, Riggo, Eric, etc. LT has a chance to join that group and maybe is already. OJ fits there also

drgondog · May 5, 2009

asked another way - who would you choose to build a team around today and jim brown might not be my first choice. At this question Earl Campbell, John Riggins, Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton pop up very high because of durability, abilty to score from anywhere, ability to pick up a blitzing linebacker, and ability to catch and run with the football.

As much as I loved Brown he never caught my eye blocking for anybody - but I think you would have to be nuts, even today, to overlook Brown.

drgondog · May 5, 2009

As to coaches. Today - Belichick. All time you have to look at Lombardi, Schula and Landry - then Noll and Walsh.

Think what Landry's record might have been if he inherited an established team and had draft choices instead of cast offs. How long will it be before another coach has 18 straight winning seasons, two runs of 9 and 8 straight play off appearances and 17 straght opening day wins - or coach 29 years.

Belichick has a chance (and probably will) to eclipse Landry's super bowl appearances but who else on the horizon is gonna do five?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 5, 2009

drgondog said:
As to coaches. Today - Belichick. All time you have to look at Lombardi, Schula and Landry - then Noll and Walsh.

I would have to go with Walsh. The man was a genius. What he built in San Francisco is amazing! It carried on even after he was gone.

Bucksnort101 · May 5, 2009

I loved watching Barry Sanders run, seemed he could go from an all out run and make a cut and go in almost the opposite direction without even slowing down. He had a knack for being piled on and getting away anyway.
Earl Campbell was fun to watch when I was younger, he was punishing to the defence. Vikings got a beast in Adrian Peterson, but it's too early in his carreer to put him up there with the best. I also liked watching the Vikes Robert Smith back in the late 90's early 2000's seasons. He retired to early to gain status among the best, but he could run.

drgondog · May 5, 2009

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I would have to go with Walsh. The man was a genius. What he built in San Francisco is amazing! It carried on even after he was gone.

Chris - I agree his innovation contributions, particularly the West Coast Offense. He personally was an excellent evaluator of talent in context of his system. No question he is an all time great coach.

I pick Landry over him primarily for the following reasons.

Landry invented the Multiple Set offense, the 4-3 then the Flex Defense and then re-introduced the Shotgun and made it stick. He also (via Gil Brandt) revolutionized scouting and the draft. Before he drafted so many "who he" types that later became all pro, the owners and coaches were picking out of Street and Smith 'Top Pro Prospects' - most of which were Not scouted just picked off All America and All Conference voting lists.

The only offensive scheme that isn't a derivative of the Multiple Set (including West Coast) Offense is the Wildcat. Only very recently are pro teams converting to the 3-4 en masse so it has been a staple of most Super Bowl champions for past 30+ years.

renrich · May 5, 2009

I would pick Paul Brown over Landry by a slight margin. Buddy Parker was another really good one as well as Weeb Ewbank. Belichick, if he keeps it up and we learn to spell his name, has a chance to be one of the best. Landry was a little of a one note Charley, offensively and defensively. Meaning that he needed a certain type of player on both sides of the ball and his schemes did not work that well unless he had that type. I question how good Landry's record would have been if he had not lucked into Staubach, who really was not as disciplined as Landry liked. Brown was successful throwing the ball with Graham and also running it with Jim Brown. One has to give Noll a lot of credit as his teams at Pittsburg were the closest to a full fledged dynasty. Comparing all these coaches is tough because coaches can be handicapped by the organisation they work in and sometimes a little by luck. Look at Marv Levy for a hard luck coach. Hard to ignore Shula. He coached for 33 seasons and won 76.8% of his games. Landry won 50.7% of his games. Heck, Dan Reeves coached for 23 seasons and won 59.5% of his games and coached in four Super Bowls(and won none.)

Messy1 · May 5, 2009

I think Sanders would have been the best all time if he had played for another team, or at the very least been traded when he wanted to be. I feel they owed him at least that , to trade him when he requested it, for carrying that team for so long. He chose early retirement over more years in Detroit.

As far as coaches, I would have to say Walsh. Look how many teams are using, and have used a variation of his offense through the years? Also, has any team other than the 49ers, had more assistants leave the franchise and become winning coaches of other teams? Seifert, Shanahan, Holmgren, many others I cannot recall right now. All multiple Super Bowl winning coaches (except Seifert). IMO, this is due directly to Walsh and how he coached and taught, and his west coast offense.

Messy1 · May 5, 2009

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I would have to go with Walsh. The man was a genius. What he built in San Francisco is amazing! It carried on even after he was gone.

Well put Chris, I am thinking along the same lines in my previous post.

drgondog · May 6, 2009

Messy1 said:
As far as coaches, I would have to say Walsh. Look how many teams are using, and have used a variation of his offense through the years? Also, has any team other than the 49ers, had more assistants leave the franchise and become winning coaches of other teams? Seifert, Shanahan, Holmgren, many others I cannot recall right now. All multiple Super Bowl winning coaches (except Seifert). IMO, this is due directly to Walsh and how he coached and taught, and his west coast offense.

Seifurt won two, Holmgren one/lost two, Shanahan two.

What was Walsh's record for number of wins, number of consecutive winning seasons, number of years as a head coach, number of teams in Super Bowl.

He WAS a great coach but hard to match Shula and Landry records ever again (or George Halas)

Messy1 · May 6, 2009

I'd be interested to see how those numbers stack up Bill, that would make for a interesting comparison.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 6, 2009

drgondog said:
Chris - I agree his innovation contributions, particularly the West Coast Offense. He personally was an excellent evaluator of talent in context of his system. No question he is an all time great coach.

I pick Landry over him primarily for the following reasons.

Landry invented the Multiple Set offense, the 4-3 then the Flex Defense and then re-introduced the Shotgun and made it stick. He also (via Gil Brandt) revolutionized scouting and the draft. Before he drafted so many "who he" types that later became all pro, the owners and coaches were picking out of Street and Smith 'Top Pro Prospects' - most of which were Not scouted just picked off All America and All Conference voting lists.

The only offensive scheme that isn't a derivative of the Multiple Set (including West Coast) Offense is the Wildcat. Only very recently are pro teams converting to the 3-4 en masse so it has been a staple of most Super Bowl champions for past 30+ years.

I really can agree with you assessment. I still have to go with Walsh for personal reasons...

Messy1 · May 6, 2009

I am biased as well I have to admit.

drgondog · May 6, 2009

Messy1 said:
I'd be interested to see how those numbers stack up Bill, that would make for a interesting comparison.

Walsh - Did not play NFL football
3-0 Superbowl
1x 6 season winning streak and six playoff seasons, six division championships
102-63-1 overall record including playoffs
.609 Winning Record with 3 out of 10 season Losing Record (three of first four)

Landry - NFL All Pro Safety New York Giants
2-3 Superbowl, losing by 3 to Colts and twice to Pittsburg by 4 each, Only Coach w/5 SuperBowl appearances.
1x 8 and 1x 9 straight Playoff streaks, 18 straight winning seasons and 19 total playoff seasons.
250-162-6 overall record including Playoffs
.607 Winning record with 6 out of 29 seasons Losing record (four of first five)

Landry also had 16 seasons with 10 or more regular season victories (Shula had 19) - largely coaching in 12 and 14 game seasons and had a record of 17 straight opening day victories. He and Shula are tied with total number of playoff seasons.

Think about 18 straight winning seasons. Walsh would have had to coach at least another 10 years to even have a chance of having 18 straight winning seasons.

Perspective

Dungee broke Landry's record of 9 straight this last year with his 10th straight playoff season (and retired) but was a long way from achieving the most consecutive winning streak of 18 that Landry should hold forever. Dungee won one AFC and Superbowl.

Belichick has to start over on Playoff run record with only five in a row and only has to have 10 more consecutive winning seasons to tie Landy. So, he will have to have zero hiccups and coach at least another 10 consecutive years to tie Dungy for consecutive Playoff seasons and one more winning season (11)to tie Landy for number of consecutive winning seasons..

Belichick should break Landry's superbowl appearance record but has to go two more times to do it

Messy1 · May 6, 2009

Good info Bill, I do see your point.

renrich · May 6, 2009

Interesting point about NFL coaches and their careers as NFL players. Only around 30 % of all active NFL coaches played any in the NFL. If you limit them to position coaches(excluding strength coaches and such) a good deal less than 30 % played NFL football. Somewhat answers the question about why there are not more black head coaches in the NFL since the majority of the players are black. Paul Brown coached 25 seasons, won 84.9% of his games, won 75% of his playoff games and won seven championships. George Halas coached 40 seasons, won 69.8% of his games and won one championship.

drgondog · May 6, 2009

'Best' is opinion - but facts support Landry being one of the top three by any measurement set (not single) of coaching metrics... not to mention his personal credentials as a high school, college and pro football player, outstanding war record as B-17 pilot in 8th AF and his incredible contributions of time and money to charities all over Texas.

Name another coach who is close on the personal dimension of life - outside football

Best NFL Running Back of all times?

Greatest NFL Running Back of all times?

Shaun Alexander (Seattle Seahawks 2000-2007)

Marcus Allen (Los Angeles Raiders 1982-1992, Kansas City Chiefs 1993-1997)

Emitt Smith (Dallas Cowboys 1990-2002, Arizona Cardinals 2003-2004)

Walter Payton (Chicago Bears 1975-1987)

Barry Sanders (Detroit Lions 1989-1998)

Curtis Martin (New England Patriots 1995-1997, New York Jets 1998-2007)

Jerome Bettis (Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams 1993-1995, Pittsburgh Steelers 1996-2005)

Eric Dickerson (LA Rams 1983-1987, IND Colts 1987-1991, LA Raiders 1992, ATL Falcons 1993)

Tony Dorsett (Dallas Cowboys 1977-1987, Denver Broncos 1988)

Jim Brown (Cleveland Browns 1957-1965)

Marshall Faulk (Indianapolis Colts 1994-1998, St. Louis Rams 1999-2006)

Franco Harris (Pittsburgh Steelers 1972-1983, Seattle Seahawks 1984)

Thurman Thomas (Buffalo Bills 1988-1999, Miami Dolphins 2000)

Edgerrin James (Indianapolis Colts (1999–2005, Arizona Cardinals 2006–present)

John Riggins (New York Jets (1971-1975, Washington Redskins 1976-1979 and 1981-1985)

O.J. Simpson (Buffalo Bills (1969–1977, San Francisco 49ers 1978–1979)

LaDainian Tomlinson (San Diego Chargers 2001-Present)

Ricky Watters (SF 49ers 1991-1994, PHI Eagles 1995-1997, SEA Seahawks 1998-2001)

Ottis Anderson (St. Louis Cardinals 1979-1986, New York Giants 1986-1992)

Jamal Lewis (Baltimore Ravens 2000-2006, Cleveland Browns 2007-present)

Jim Taylor (Green Bay Packers 1958-1966, New Orleans Saints 1967)

Joe Perry (San Francisco 49ers 1948-1960, Baltimore Colts 1961-1962, San Francisco 49ers 1963)

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