cheddar cheese
Major General
The only sense that lanc makes are smelly ones 
(Yes, I know the spelling for that sentence is scents, but you get my drift.)
(Yes, I know the spelling for that sentence is scents, but you get my drift.)
Best Nightfighter of WW2 (Continued)
- Thread starter cheddar cheese
- Start date
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Erich
the old Sage
why the Uhu ?
mosquitoman
Master Sergeant
It's the Mossie, that and the Beau defeated the blitz, it was also instrumental in removing the night-time threat to Malta
Erich
the old Sage
sorry DAvidicus but the Smithsonian article is bogus. The last production Heinkel 219 to serve on ops was the
A-2 variant. The A-5 , A-6 and A-7 never appeared. The operational record of I./NJG 1 flying the beast is at best dismal
A-2 variant. The A-5 , A-6 and A-7 never appeared. The operational record of I./NJG 1 flying the beast is at best dismal
KraziKanuK
Banned
- 792
- Jan 26, 2005
Erich might shoot me down for this, but the top speed usually listed (416mph) for the 219 was for an a/c that had been cleaned up > no antenna, no exhaust shrouds, and some other stuff removed which I have forgotten.
but the top speed usually listed (416mph) for the 219 was for an a/c that had been cleaned up > no antenna, no exhaust shrouds, and some other stuff removed which I have forgotten.
Erich
the old Sage
KK no I think the Uhu was a pig and the a/c probably did 375 mph max loaded in the air.
KraziKanuK
Banned
- 792
- Jan 26, 2005
Erich said:
Erich, I agree. I think you read my post wrong. The number given for top speed is bogus as the a/c would not be of much operational without any radar antenna, yes? Unshrouded exhausts would be like a shooting star in a night sky, yes?
Erich
the old Sage
not necessarily. I just think the top speed of 416 is a bit much with all the radar aerials and given the fact the Uhu was a pretty good sized twin engine for the Germans. the Ju 88G-6 could even top out at 400 mph if pushed....
- Thread starter
- #11
cheddar cheese
Major General
Best NF I say P-61
Erich
the old Sage
in the Pacific only...........
KraziKanuK
Banned
- 792
- Jan 26, 2005
Erich said:
Erich the nose was clean. Only the stubs were in place. The Mossie gained several mph when its exhaust shrouds were removed.
I confess that I am unaware of the evidence disparaging the He-219.
What sources indicate that the He-219 was anything but a superb night fighter?
I think that the P-61C would have been a truly great night fighter but it never saw combat. I understand that the A and B versions were somewhat slow (370 mph).
What sources indicate that the He-219 was anything but a superb night fighter?
I think that the P-61C would have been a truly great night fighter but it never saw combat. I understand that the A and B versions were somewhat slow (370 mph).
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
I agree, both, P-61C and He-219 were great nightfighters technically. But they also had little impact compared to the Mossie, the Me-110G and the Ju-88G. That is an important point, I belive. Even if they lack some speed and technical advantages, they managed to do the work over years pretty well. And the future belonged to jet driven nightfighters, anyway. I would vote for the Mossie, it proved to be reliable, it had excellent nightfighting capabilities, it was deployed in numbers and it stayed in front line use till the very end of ww2. I
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
and beyond.............
- Thread starter
- #17
cheddar cheese
Major General
Yes, but where are they all now! 
Ill tell you where, theyre part of the wood chipping we use on our flowerbeds.
Ill tell you where, theyre part of the wood chipping we use on our flowerbeds.
Erich
the old Sage
David what is your source(s) that say the He 219 was a good nf ? only 12 Mossie kills does not say much. the engines were not in good shape and failed many times on combat ops. Did not have the range for ops that everyone envisioned at first. The armament though powerful was too much and many A-0's and A-2's had two of the ventral cannon removed. The ejection seats did not always work properly and actually ejected both crewmen through the canopy several times killing them. No rarward radar on 9/1-th sof the A-0's and A-2's used on operations and the bird was easy prey for the Mossie Night fighter. The a/c was also prone to broken backs while on landing, rason for NJGr 10 and their tests to leave the two birds broken on the decaying tarmac while they used Ju 88G-6's in 1944-45.
My sources are documentation from I./NJG 1, 3./NJGr 10, NJG 5, Nachtjagdstaffel Norwegen.
Although in the testing stages, the A-5 and A-7 did not appear to the front line unit I./NJG 1 as thought. The anti-Mossie A-6 stripped of all armor never got off the ground and was neither used on operations, in fact it never got to the service unit destined for the a/c.
The P-51A nd B were too heavy for the ETO and although kills were made esepcially by the US 422nd nfs many German bombers and Night fighters elluded the Black Widow. Tthree Widows were shot down by return fire from a He 177 and JU 87D-5's on three different missions....
E
My sources are documentation from I./NJG 1, 3./NJGr 10, NJG 5, Nachtjagdstaffel Norwegen.
Although in the testing stages, the A-5 and A-7 did not appear to the front line unit I./NJG 1 as thought. The anti-Mossie A-6 stripped of all armor never got off the ground and was neither used on operations, in fact it never got to the service unit destined for the a/c.
The P-51A nd B were too heavy for the ETO and although kills were made esepcially by the US 422nd nfs many German bombers and Night fighters elluded the Black Widow. Tthree Widows were shot down by return fire from a He 177 and JU 87D-5's on three different missions....
E
Erich:
Type in "He-219" into your search engine and you will retrieve a wealth of web sites with information singing the praises of the He-219 as a night fighter. I have not seen any disparaging information with the exception of what knowledgeable people (like yourself) are saying.
I will defer to your assertions here as I am not very knowledgeable concerning the He-219 or really any of the night fighters for that matter.
On another note, I believe you meant P-61 as opposed to P-51.
Type in "He-219" into your search engine and you will retrieve a wealth of web sites with information singing the praises of the He-219 as a night fighter. I have not seen any disparaging information with the exception of what knowledgeable people (like yourself) are saying.
I will defer to your assertions here as I am not very knowledgeable concerning the He-219 or really any of the night fighters for that matter.
On another note, I believe you meant P-61 as opposed to P-51.
Erich
the old Sage
I'll punch in He 219 and I am sure it is old news. yes correct P-61 not P-51. my poor hands.............
