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[plan_D]

The RN didn't require Carriers for the defence of its empire. The only time you need carriers is when you haven't got airfields capable of hitting the area. If you're defending land that has airfields, like Australia. You don't need carriers to defend it.

If the RN was taking the fight across the small islands, then carriers would have been needed but America was doing that part. In the Atlantic we had the carriers needed, we weren't going up against other big carrier Navies, so why build masses of them of our own?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and aircraft weren't always the best way to a hunt a sub, the german tactics for the most part were to stay submerged during the day, and attack at night, when a aircraft won't pick you up, whereas a sonar will, and what happens if the aircraft carrier is sunk by the U-boat???

 

[Lightning Guy]

Radar Lanc. Every Avenger was carrying at least a basic search set and by the end of the war they were carrying the Mk. 24 FIDO homing torpedo and didn't even have to see the target to kill it. They weren't just hunting it with eyes. You do run the risk of a U-Boat sinking an aircraft carrier, but would you rather be in a convoy with or without them?

Plan_D you still haven't really answered the jest of my question. Would more carriers have been useless to the RN? If so, then it was fine not to build them but carriers were the brunt of naval power and without them the RN wasn't nearly as impressive as a fighting force as it might have been. Had there been a carrier to defend Singapore it might have lasted.

 

[plan_D]

No, Britain didn't need anymore carriers. Singapore wouldn't have lasted any longer with one, it was overrun by Japanese land forces. The Carrier would have had to leave once it's dock had been taken.

 

[MP-Willow]

Carriers are pure power projectio and mobility. A carrier fleet can used the weather to hide it, like the Japanese did so well. Also the carrier ovig is not a fixed place in space, so the attacking force has to maintain contact or at least know where they are. U-boat huntig was when refind a co-operative effort as stated a lot of different units were used, but the CVEs allowed the convoy to maintain its course while the planes were out chaseing the subs. A fleet carrier force in the Atlantic might have been nice, but as Plane_D has said no fleet carriers to oppose it. Now if the German or Italian Carrier programs were to have come on line the story might be different.

The RN could have benifited in the Indian ocean with flet carriers, say three to help with patrol and as stated power projection when land based planes are limited in rage and arms. Also look at the location of Singapore and how important it was. Yes it was taken by land units, but a carrier force would have helped to make the war planners think things over and that might have been what the deffence needed, a little more time. But what Singapore needed was to be concidered valuable and deffended with top rate arms and men, that was not what happened. So tis ramble is over you my all rant at me or just ignore this muse.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but we're talking about more use of carriers in the atlantic................

 

[Lightning Guy]

Actually, I thought this started as a comparison between the IJN and the RN. The IJN had a huge advantage in carriers, carrier planes, and carrier pilots in 1941 and that is really the end of the matter.

Now, this isn't my idea, I've seen it on history programs but it is interesting the Singapore surrendered (slightly different from being over run) almost immediately after the Prince of Wales and Repulse were lost. If the RN had more assests in the area, i.e. carriers, it might have held out longer.

 

[plan_D]

No, the Prince of Wales and Repulse were sunk on the 10th December 1941 in the China Sea by torpedos. In February 1942 by the 15th despite very brave resistance from the Australian, British and Indian defenders, Singapore surrenders leaving 80,000 captives.

MP-Willow, these people were top rate. They could have held it if the Coastal Guns on Singapore could be turned inland. They were never expecting a land invasion. The area had air cover from all around, a carrier wouldn't have done anything new.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

it would only make another, very expensive, target.................

 

[plan_D]

On not of the Singapore incident a Carrier was on it's way there. The 'Prince of Wales' and 'Repulse' were set to meet with the fleet-carrier 'Indomitable' but went on without it. Why they did that I don't know. I think they wanted to get them to Singapore as quickly as possible.

 

[Lightning Guy]

Plan_D, the Idomitable ran aground of the course of Jamaica while working up in Nov. of 1941. That delayed her long enough that she missed her rendevous. I don't think she would have been much use against the Japanese at the time (her fighter compliment was 9 Sea Hurricanes and 12 Fulmars). Still, some air cover is better than none.

 

[plan_D]

That's the thing the RN in Singapore didn't have any Seaborne aircover. Land based aircraft were still there.

 

[Lightning Guy]

And as we have discussed elsewhere, still no match for the IJN and the Zero.

 

[MP-Willow]

So with that said, here is a thought to get you to think IJN and USN, if the IJN could have been able to replace the pilots lost with similarly or better trained pilots at did the USN would the IJN have faired any better in 1942?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

it's close to call because you have to remeber that by late '42 the americans were getting good pilots of their own, but i think that if the japs had been able to replace their early war pilots, they would easily hold the advantage for much longer......................

 

[Lightning Guy]

The Japanse did very well throughout 1942. Midway was a big blow but it was into 1943 before their pilot quailty really started dropping off. The fighting in the Solomons and around Rabaul really took its toll. However, even if Japan could have replaced their pilots it wouldn't have made that much difference in the end because Japan couldn't produce or replace the aircraft at a pace that would match the US.

 

[Piaggio108]

Piaggio P.108T!
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Ali D'Italia Piaggio P.108

 

[Piaggio108]

Sorry, I posted that last one withount reading the whole topic. It was actualy on topic, which may explain it a bit.

 

[plan_D]

It is on topic, true.

It was the economy of America that won her the war. No one could match it and especially not Japan. It may have lasted longer if say Midway was won by the Japanese but eventually they were going to be beaten.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but if they could replace the aircraft and carriers they would have stood a good chance against america....................