Best World War II Aircraft?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

They were sent for Combat Air Patrols for operational testing. They never saw combat.

No P-59s were sent to Europe for operations purposes. Therefore the photo is labeled wrong or it is the on the RAF were testing.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Sometimes ya gotta love Winkpedia..

"The 13 service test YP-59As had a more powerful engine than its predecessor, but the improvement in performance was negligible with only a five mph increase in top speed. One of these aircraft, third YP-59A (S/n: 42-22611) was supplied to the RAF in exchange for a Gloster Meteor. British pilots found that the aircraft compared very unfavourably with the locally-produced jets that they were already flying. (They also compared unfavorably to P-51 Mustangs.) Two YP-59A Airacomets (42-108778 and 42-100779) were also delivered to the USN where they were evaluated as the YF2L-1 but quickly found completely unsuitable for carrier operations.

Faced with their own ongoing difficulties, eventually, Bell completed 50 production Airacomets-20 P-59As and 30 P-59Bs. Each was armed with one 37-mm M-4 cannon and 44 rounds of ammunition and three .50 cal. machine guns and 200 rounds per gun. The P-59Bs were assigned to the 412th Fighter Group to familiarize AAF pilots with the handling and performance characteristics of jet aircraft. While the P-59 was not a great success, the type did give the USAAF experience with the operation of jet aircraft in preparation for the more advanced types that would shortly become available."

 

[Soren]

Agree - my point here was the early jet aircraft were unrelaible and sometime dangerous. Becuase of the wartime urgency the Me 262 utilized material and contruction techniques that were somewhat crude.

The problem was not the airframe, the airframe was strong and well built (Unless sabotaged), the engines however were too ahead of their time, the heat levels reached were simply to much for the materials available at the time.

 

[Wespe]

The problem was not the airframe, the airframe was strong and well built (Unless sabotaged), the engines however were too ahead of their time, the heat levels reached were simply to much for the materials available at the time.

Hi Soren,

the whole time when I looked at your signature pic. I felt hat something was wrong. Yep now I know it is the pilot Willi Reschkes uniform. Did you mirror the picture deliberatly?

Wespe

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Sometimes ya gotta love Winkpedia..

"The 13 service test YP-59As had a more powerful engine than its predecessor, but the improvement in performance was negligible with only a five mph increase in top speed. One of these aircraft, third YP-59A (S/n: 42-22611) was supplied to the RAF in exchange for a Gloster Meteor. British pilots found that the aircraft compared very unfavourably with the locally-produced jets that they were already flying. (They also compared unfavorably to P-51 Mustangs.) Two YP-59A Airacomets (42-108778 and 42-100779) were also delivered to the USN where they were evaluated as the YF2L-1 but quickly found completely unsuitable for carrier operations.

Faced with their own ongoing difficulties, eventually, Bell completed 50 production Airacomets-20 P-59As and 30 P-59Bs. Each was armed with one 37-mm M-4 cannon and 44 rounds of ammunition and three .50 cal. machine guns and 200 rounds per gun. The P-59Bs were assigned to the 412th Fighter Group to familiarize AAF pilots with the handling and performance characteristics of jet aircraft. While the P-59 was not a great success, the type did give the USAAF experience with the operation of jet aircraft in preparation for the more advanced types that would shortly become available."

Yeap just like I said.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The problem was not the airframe, the airframe was strong and well built (Unless sabotaged), the engines however were too ahead of their time, the heat levels reached were simply to much for the materials available at the time.

The airframe was built well - it was the components that went into it that made the aircraft a "rust bucket." In the Walter J. Boyne's book "Arrow to the Future" he has a chapter where the restoration of the Me 262 that is now in the Smithsonian Institute is described. There were many areas of the aircraft were steel and aluminum (among other materials) were used togther in main structural components with little or no protection - in that situation corrosion would set in almost immediately. It is understandable why this was done during but at the same time I think some of these "rushed processes" would of shown their head had the aircraft seen another 6 months more of service.

 

[Morai_Milo]

How many a/c actually are around after 6 months of service?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

How many a/c actually are around after 6 months of service?

I guess it depends what side you're on. Even though many of the aircraft used in WW2 were never thought to have a life expectancy of more than a few hundred hours, there is no reason to build them that way unless you're pretty desperate. The point here is as effective an innovative the Me 262 was, its faults lied in it's construction and engines - but that aside, when everything was working, she was unstoppable.

 

[Wespe]

I guess it depends what side you're on. Even though many of the aircraft used in WW2 were never thought to have a life expectancy of more than a few hundred hours, there is no reason to build them that way unless you're pretty desperate. The point here is as effective an innovative the Me 262 was, its faults lied in it's construction and engines - but that aside, when everything was working, she was unstoppable.

YES,YES,YES

"when everything was working, she was unstoppable "

Thank you I needed that

Wespe

 

[Parmigiano]

It is difficult to have a firm opinion on the 262, we are lacking reliable information about her effectiveness.

Trying to roughly summarize, to my knowledge we can say:

Things that we can accept as facts

1 - The performances were extremely good
2 - the tactical and strategical situation was desperate: no fuel, outnumbered 10/20: 1 at every combat etc.
3 - the airframe was OK,
4 - the engines were troublesome

About the actual results, there are not (to my knowledge) reliable information:

Me 262 downed: it seems that a meaningful number is around 150, not clear if this include those aircrafts strafed on the ground or only the airborne.
For sure it does include aircrafts shoot down during take off and landing.


Me 262 kills: here goes the dance.
According to Osprey the kills were:

Eprobungskommando 262 ------------ 12
Kampfgeswafer 51 "Edelweiss" ----- 8+
Kommando Nowotny ----------------- 22
III./EJ 2 ------------------------ 40
Jagdegeswader 7 ------------------ 500
Kommando Welter (10.NJG 11) ------ 48
Jagdverband 44 ------------------- 55+
Kampfgeswader 54 "Totenkompf" ---- 50

that is about 735

Now, this seems too much, they are probably claims.

On the other end, there are sources ( I can't remember now) that report a total of 180-200 kills.


In any case we should come to some reliable number of kills to make an opinion about the 262 as 'best' or 'useless' fighter:

Taking (as pure exercise) 150 as the number of 262 downed,
- considering the 'fact' #2 and
- that a good half of the losses happened during take off/landing and not in combat

we might have:

Kills = 150-200 -> good,
But probably not worth the cost of such a sophisticated machine

Kills = 200-300 -> Extremely good,
no other aircraft could possibly have achieved this results

Kills = 300-400 -> Impressive,
almost terrifying

Kills > 400 : the 262 was in effect another planet, not a plane!

 

[Wespe]

I wouldn't know about Osprey, but if you check the following page for Jet fighter kills (Duesenjaeger) you will come up with about 400 kills + since this page only shows pilots with kills 5 and above.

Düsenjägers - Jet Aces of The Luftwaffe

So the Me-262 was either impressive or as you say from another planet. So I will stick to impressive because if I would refer it to being from another planet then Adler is going to have a reason to ban it from WWII

Wespe

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I guess it depends what side you're on. Even though many of the aircraft used in WW2 were never thought to have a life expectancy of more than a few hundred hours, there is no reason to build them that way unless you're pretty desperate. The point here is as effective an innovative the Me 262 was, its faults lied in it's construction and engines - but that aside, when everything was working, she was unstoppable.

YES,YES,YES

"when everything was working, she was unstoppable "

Thank you I needed that

Wespe

That's good

Now with all that said, I think it's clear why the Me 262 cannot be considered for the "Best Aircraft of WW2." Certainly the most innovative but there's a bigger picture to consider when there is more to flying than trying to shoot down another aircraft - I know its hard to put the testosterone in check but we all have to do it at one time or another.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The world according to Wespe:

Q: What is the best fighter of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

Q: What is the best bomber of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

Q: What is the best Seaplane of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

(Wespe is drooling by now....)

Q: What is the best Submarine of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

Q: Who was the best leader of WW2?
Wespe: OOOHHH OOHHH That is easy! Me-262!!!!

Q: What is the only plain that had no faults at all?
Wespe: Besides every aircraft the Luftwaffe had, Certainly the Me-262!!!!

(Wespe has nearly wet himself now....)

Q: What was the best sex of your life?
Wespe: Me-262!!!! Damn was she hot!!!!

 

[Hunter368]

Yes we get all kinds here and they all come with their bias opinions.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You replace the Me-262 with the P-51D or P-38 and you have syscom. You replace the Me-262 with the Lancaster and you have Lanc.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

You replace the Me-262 with the P-51D or P-38 and you have syscom. You replace the Me-262 with the Lancaster and you have Lanc.

 

[Wespe]

The world according to Wespe:

Q: What is the best fighter of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

Q: What is the best bomber of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

Q: What is the best Seaplane of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

(Wespe is drooling by now....)

Q: What is the best Submarine of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

Q: Who was the best leader of WW2?
Wespe: OOOHHH OOHHH That is easy! Me-262!!!!

Q: What is the only plain that had no faults at all?
Wespe: Besides every aircraft the Luftwaffe had, Certainly the Me-262!!!!

(Wespe has nearly wet himself now....)

Q: What was the best sex of your life?
Wespe: Me-262!!!! Damn was she hot!!!!

YEAH,YEAH, oh my god dont stop now

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It is true my friend. Congratulations in just 80 posts you have reached the status of Lanc and Syscom3.

 

[Civettone]

The world according to Wespe:

Q: What is the best fighter of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

Q: What is the best bomber of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

Q: What is the best Seaplane of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

(Wespe is drooling by now....)

Q: What is the best Submarine of WW2?
Wespe: Me-262!!!!

Q: Who was the best leader of WW2?
Wespe: OOOHHH OOHHH That is easy! Me-262!!!!

Q: What is the only plain that had no faults at all?
Wespe: Besides every aircraft the Luftwaffe had, Certainly the Me-262!!!!

(Wespe has nearly wet himself now....)

Q: What was the best sex of your life?
Wespe: Me-262!!!! Damn was she hot!!!!

:BIG:

 

[Civettone]

It is true my friend. Congratulations in just 80 posts you have reached the status of Lanc and Syscom3.

What's Syscom3's fetish then???


Kris