Better German naval strategy 1930-1945? (2 Viewers)

[Zmauky]

I think the near-impossibility of invading the UK was amply demonstrated in 1940.

and then they had to wait until June 1944

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

and then they had to wait until June 1944

Sure, and with massive American help. But by then I think the Germans would've been so wrapped up around the Eastern Front that they'd have been happy to say, "Hey, look, guys, sorry we gave you early trouble, what do you want to go back to norms?" In which case I think the Brits even without American help would likely have said, "No thanks, we'll keep up the blockade and let you Continental opponents bleed themselves dry," as they'd done for a couple of hundred years already, and continued huffing American support.

Especially once America included the USSR in L-L. No way the Germans can interdict the North Pacific route.

 

[Zmauky]

Yes, British policy was clear for a couple of centuries ago, what changed (between the Franco-Prussian and WW1 wars) were the political and military blocs - the rapprochement of Prussia/Germany and Austria-Hungary created an overwhelming force, so the UK decided to help France (and Russia indirectly as a French ally). It is interesting that almost all of Germany's allies in WW2 (Japan, Italy, Romania) were their opponents 25 years earlier. Which actually explains the lack of cooperation and coordination. (And Italian policy towards Germany until '38).


And the alternative scenarios ... that Germany cannot stop the Pacific route for the American LL is correct, but Japan can, it is impossible to imagine that in the case of, for example, the balkanization of the CCCP, Japan would not react, and the ships did not sail with the American flag.
Or what would be the reaction of the UK if they lost Alessandria / Suez?
Or let's say what about Turkish move (not to mention the Iraqi revolution or the Shah of Iran or India) ?

And as it was said, butterflies multiply with each step and it may not be the most accurate to take things that happened as written in stone for any possible situation.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating a different course of history, I'm just open to different possibilities. Anyway, my opinion is that we rolling in our way through time without any vision and general plan and only sometimes we see (and correct) mistakes here and there. Somehow, that would be an explanation of the situation in which the world finds itself today.

 

[Shortround6]

I'm simply pointing out that the UK wasn't in nearly such dire straits as was painted.

Depends on who you listened to.
And about what, and when.

The Army needed more tanks, guns, troops, cement and.....................to repel an invasion.
The RAF needed more bombers to bomb the German factories supplying German "invasion stuff", the army could just deal with whatever the Germans showed up with.
The Navy could barely keep from falling out their chairs laughing at the idea of a successful German invasion but what did they know

Now about the U-boat threat you were going to get different answers.
Navy wants more ships and men.
RAF wants more bombers so they can blow up the U-boat factories/ship yards and the Navy can deal with the ones already built. No swaning about all over the ocean on the chance to spot a U-boat for them.
Army wants as much "stuff" as can be spared incase the Germans come back after knocking out Russia.

 

[GrauGeist]

Just the very threat of a German invasion tied up precious resources that Britain could have used elsewhere.

This also had a psychological effect on the public just like the threat of a Japanese invasion on the west coast of North America did, both in terms of military focus as well as with the public.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Depends on who you listened to.

Yeah, that's rather my point.

Just the very threat of a German invasion tied up precious resources that Britain could have used elsewhere.

Even before Barbarossa, the OKW had decided that Seeloew wasn't doable. The Brits didn't know of that decision, to be sure, but they knew that the Heer lacked the barges for troop transport, the Kriegsmarine lacked the ships for escort, and the Luftwaffe couldn't seize control of the air. They judged right.

The Brits actually did send troops from the UK to North Africa in 1941, both around the Cape route and iirc a convoy of tanks through the Med when the situation was still in doubt. What was it, Operation Tiger? The UK was sending troops, arms, and materiel to the Med almost as soon as Italy jumped in.

So while they kept forces on Britain and trained up, and gathered in American troops later for the European invasion, they still sent out large units even before Barbarossa kicked off, which kinda tells you what they really thought.

 

[GrauGeist]

Yeah, that's rather my point.



Even before Barbarossa, the OKW had decided that Seeloew wasn't doable. The Brits didn't know of that decision, to be sure, but they knew that the Heer lacked the barges for troop transport, the Kriegsmarine lacked the ships for escort, and the Luftwaffe couldn't seize control of the air. They judged right.

The Brits actually did send troops from the UK to North Africa in 1941, both around the Cape route and iirc a convoy of tanks through the Med when the situation was still in doubt. What was it, Operation Tiger? The UK was sending troops, arms, and materiel to the Med almost as soon as Italy jumped in.

So while they kept forces on Britain and trained up, and gathered in American troops later for the European invasion, they still sent out large units even before Barbarossa kicked off, which kinda tells you what they really thought.

This is a wiki page, and I apologize, however, it does give a fairly straight foreward over view of the effort and resources dedicated to the potential of a German invasion:

British anti-invasion preparations of the Second World War - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

(solid references provided, btw)

 

[GrauGeist]

And to further the invasion overview, this is the invasion overview (again, wiki), but with reputable numbers.

Operation Sea Lion order of battle - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

This is a wiki page, and I apologize, however, it does give a fairly straight foreward over view of the effort and resources dedicated to the potential of a German invasion:

British anti-invasion preparations of the Second World War - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

(solid references provided, btw)

No slag, brotha, I linked to a wiki as well. But while I know the Brits took preps against invasion, I know as well that even before Germany invaded USSR the UK was sending resources to North Africa taken directly from the home islands. That says a lot about their assessment of the situation. If in May 1941 they'd rush tanks -- through the Med, not around the Cape -- from UK to Egypt, don't you think that gives us insight on where they thought the real threat was?

 

[GrauGeist]

Well, Britain was Cat juggling.

Meaning they had to scramble to put out spot fires as fast as possible all across the board.

They had to deal with Africa - not just north, but the Palestine and middle east, the potential German invasion, the situation in the Southwest Pacific and India.