Bf-110G-4

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by carman1877, May 15, 2009.

  1. carman1877

    carman1877 Member

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    This has probaly been posted before and I don't want to break the rules but shouldn't the Bf-110G-4 be considered one of the best night fighters. It downed a lot of bombers and had great armament. it had 2 x 20mm and 2 30mm along with other guns or even rockets in soem cases.
     
  2. Doughboy

    Doughboy Member

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    The top night fighter ace of all times(Major Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer) flew the BF-110 exclusively.:)...So it must have been a good plane.
     
  3. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Don't forget Jabs and Lent also were good in the 110.

    You might want to check the thread "Best Night-fighter..." to get some more opinions.
     
  4. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    #4 Thorlifter, May 15, 2009
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
    It was a good plane within a specific arena. Outside it's element, it's limitations were greatly exposed by superior single engine fighters. As early as 1941 it was being replaced by the Me-210, but due to production problems with the Me-210, the Me-110 remained in production until 1945. Perhaps the best versions of the Me-110 was the F and G with upgraded engines and armor.
     
  5. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    The 110 did score a lot of night kills, but then it was one of the first night-fighters and had one of the longest careers over the Reich. I'm sure that if the Uhu, Me262 and Ar234 nightfighters had seen extended service, they would have proved superior. Furthermore, for most of it's career, the 110 was the only dedicated fighter in the role - the Ju88, Do215 and Do217 were all bomber conversions, much larger and slower than the converted Zerstorers.Let's not forget as well that Germany suffered the longest night-bombing campaign of the war - if Japan or the UK had faced an equally protracted assault, they might have developed equally sucessful nightfighters, but the need simply wasn't there for most of the war. So yes, the 110 does have a good record, but it didn't have much competition until later in the war...
     
  6. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    the Ju 88G-6 was superior in all respects by late 1944, the 110 was light could hold the gear and crew although very cramped layout, lets remember too the top scoring outfit NJG 1 was based forward of all the other NJG's in the northern regions of Holland/Germany so ample availability of targets during the whole of the op to target and return
     
  7. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about the other aircraft but I would not bet on the Me-262 night fighter being terribly effective for anything except killing Mosquitos. It lacked endurance and internal volumne for all the electronic equipment. The late model Ju-88G was WWII state of the art for killing heavy bombers at night.
     
  8. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    the "new" 262 to be evolved was to have internal lengthen fule cells down each side of the fuselage. Obviously not too smart in my opinion but nothing could catch it at night so the idea of course was a simple very fast lightning attack to fly off and attack another BC 4-engine at will. the Mindset of the LW nf hierarchy was a bit strange in 1945
     
  9. Amsel

    Amsel Active Member

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    I wonder how the Ar234B would have done as a nightfighter.
     
  10. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    armor up the front and remove the glazed nose it would of been excellent, it was low slung enough armed sufficiently with 2cm weapons, the testing done in Italy with the small band unit was not enough time to really prove or dis-prove the jet
     
  11. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would have built on the success of the existing Ju-88G by building a night fighter version of the Ju-288. Of course you would need to place the Ju-288 into mass production....:cry:

    Ar234
    www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org - Luftwaffe Resource Center - Arado Ar 234
    742 kph max speed. (461 mph).
    7,077 kg payload (loaded weight minus empty weight)


    Ju-288.
    WRG - Luftwaffe Resource Group - Junkers Ju 288
    670 kph max speed. (416 mph)
    5,745 kg payload (loaded weight minus empty weight)

    The Ar234 is faster but the Ju-288 is plenty fast enough to intercept WWII era bombers including the American B-29. Early jet engines tended to be unreliable and were notorious for poor fuel economy. I suspect the Ju-288 would have superior endurance while cruising among the enemy bomber stream.
     
  12. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    I think Kurt Welter tested the 234 for night duties, but like Erich said, the front glazing caused too much glare.
     
  13. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    #13 Glider, May 18, 2009
    Last edited: May 18, 2009
    I have always seen the biggest problem of a NF Arado 234, being pilot overload. The radars of the time demanded a lot of attention and 'head down' time and flying at night is not easy in a combat area. It worked over the pacific which was a fairly benign environment with small numbers of aircraft and few ECM, often none, measures in place. However the sky's over Germany have many hundreds of aircraft, allied nightfighters, heavy ECM as well as other decoys, its a whole different ball game.

    There is a reason why the JU88 was the best German nightfighter and as has been mentioned, being big enough to carry all the equipment that was needed, together with the crew to operate it, was part of that equation. Range was also a key requirement that could well have been a problem for the Arado 234.
     
  14. Maximowitz

    Maximowitz Active Member

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    I've exchanged a few emails and posts with Herr Peter Spoden (NJG6) on this subject and he prefered the Ju88 over the Bf110, pretty much as Erich has stated. More power, longer endurance etc...
     
  15. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    as such through my many years of research on the LW Nachtjagd the possibilities were that units would of acquired the longer range Ju88G-10 or the 262 twin-seater would of become available on a much wider scale had the war continued into 47-48. Most likely variants of the Ar 234 with radar operator also would of seen the night skies. the Jet was the wave of the future.

    E ~
     
  16. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    No argument there. However propellor driven aircraft were not yet obsolete in May 1945. American aircraft like the B-29 heavy bomber and Skyraider attack aircraft continued to serve throughout the 1950s. Turboprops continue to power cargo, AWAC and maritime patrol aircraft. For that matter the primary Russian heavy bomber is still a turboprop.

    Hence I have my doubts as to whether the Ar-234 jet bomber was overall superior to piston engine aircraft like the He-177 and Ju-288. Most likely the German jet bomber which follows the Ar-234 would be the first one to be mass produced.
     
  17. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    Dave :

    the LW outlook for day as well as night fighters was to be the jet. the prop maybe on the terms of high alt. like the Ta 152H or other examples still on the drawing board(s). something had to be done at night to outdistance the Mossie XXX as well as punch holes in BC heavies with little or no effort, an yet with fuels allowed be able to loiter at will over the Reich.

    E ~
     
  18. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    A good point. A large part of the reason Germany pushed so hard for jets was because they could use low grade fuel.

    What about turboprops? Bomber B aircraft could use a turboprop ILO the cancelled Jumo 222 piston engine. It appears that a Hungarian engineer had the basics worked out by 1940.
    Jendrassik Cs-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [​IMG]
     
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