Brendan 'Paddy' Finucane Spitfire Mk Vb.

[Airframes]

I'd need to check the date shown in the photo caption Gerry, and the date of the changes, but first impression is that the date (in the photo) can't correlate to the markings shown. Just got back from an unexpected late one at the pub, so not quite 'with it', and being taken out tomorrow by a young lady, so will have a look later this week.

 

[Gerry]

Thanks, Darryl. Terry completely understand - no hurry on this from my point of view. Priorities, priorities, priorities!!

 

[Gerry]

I think it's about time I revived this thread now that Christmas, and a few other commitments I had, are out of the way. As it happens, this year is the 70th anniversary (15th July 1942) of Brendan "Paddy" Finucane's death and it would be nice to complete this build by then, as my tribute to him.

Since I last posted in October, I have been proceeding with research on the Web and also in local archives, but haven't managed to turn up any fresh visual references. Just to recap, this is where I stand to date.

Aircraft 1: With 452 Squadron, UD*W A/C Nos AB 852 or AB 972, September 1941 to Feburary 1942. This (these) aircraft are well documented with the famous pictures of Brendan in, and alighting from, the cockpit. If you look closely at his shamrock emblem though, it's different in the two versions with the initials 'BF' missing on one. This could be due to a repaint of the same aircraft or one is of his replacement aircraft, after AB 852 was shot up. Unfortunately none of these portside pictures show the a/c No. A build by Brett Green, and some other refs, finished their build of AB 852 in Ocean Grey / Dark Green / Medium Sea Grey, with Sky codes, spinner and fuselage band with the older de Havilland spinner and blades. the aircraft index number is partially overpainted by the fuselage band. Is it fair to assume that AB 972 (a newer aircraft) would have been equipped with the Rotol prop at this stage?

Aircraft 2: 602 Squadron, LO*W a/c No: BM 124 "QUEEN SALOTE", March - September 1942. The only visual reference I've found for this is a currently available sheet of Xtradecal decals. This was (according to the decal sheet) a presentation aircraft from the Queen and people of Tonga and featured the title "QUEEN SALOTE" in front of the shamrock on the cowling. I have been unable to independently confirm this from any other visual source, although the decal sheet gives a literary reference, 'Gifts of War, p263', but I haven't been able to track down a copy of this particular book. <http://www.co.uk.product/X32041> On the decal refs this is finished in Ocean Grey / Dark Green / Medium Sea Grey, Sky codes, spinner and fuselage band, with the a/c No partially overpainted by the fuselage band. It also is equipped with the Rotol prop.

Aircraft 3: During his tenure as Wing Commander, Hornchurch, Brendan flew BF*, BM 308, the aircraft I believe he met his death in. Other than the profile posted by Nxthanos (post 18, above), I've found no other visuals on this aircraft. Purely based on the profile, this aircraft appears to be finished in Ocean Grey / Dark Green / Medium Sea Grey, Sky codes, spinner and fuselage band, with the Hornchurch W/C's Pennant in front of the shamrock on the cowling.

WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE?
AB 852 has been modelled a lot, including the build by Brett Green and a diecast version from Corgi. Because it's been done before, I would rather tackle a less popular code - but the downside is fewer references for his other a/c. However this, (or AB 972), is the safe option with the best sources of references.

I would really like to build one of the other two options, with my preference being BM 308. But my fear is there will be a lot of guesswork involved. My intention would be to strive for accuracy without becoming obsessed by it - however, I don't want to build a completely fictional aircraft.

THE KITS
I haven't shelled out for a kit yet and am still considering the Tamiya 1/48 Spitfire MkVb or the HobbyBoss 1/32 kit. Despite originally discarding the HobbyBoss kit, I have been encouraged by more favourable reviews of it on the web and a good build review of it in December's Issue of Model Aircraft International. The inaccuracies would appear to be easily fixed, also, I'm quietly encouraged by the reaction to Ajcmac's build, of this kit, in Start to Finish Builds on this Forum. As far as I can see nobody has so far questioned the kit accuracy - at least not yet. I think the absolute decider, for me, will be whether I go with the Rotol prop or not. As far as I can see, the HobbyBoss kit comes with the older prop and I haven't been able to find an aftermarket Rotol kit in 1/32. The Tamiya comes with the Rotol prop but I know I can get the earlier prop set, in resin, in 1/48 scale.

A lot of the above is me thinking aloud, but I'm putting it out there for any comments/suggestions that may help me make a final decision. I'm also very happy to be corrected if any of my above assumptions are mistaken - I'm definitely not an expert in this field. Finally I feel I need a tutorial on the difference between early and late RAF markings, which I understand changed during the periods I'm looking at. Terry???? Anyone????

 

[Gerry]

Obviously, i'm still rubbish when it comes to adding links to threads. I don't know whether it's me or the Mac? Anyhow here are the photos I tried to post in the above thread, showing Brendan's two shamrock variants.

 

[Airframes]

I'm still trying to find which book I think has a pic of his aircraft, possibly BM308. I'll let you know if/when I find it!
I'll put something together on the markings changes, but so far you are correct regarding the overall colour scheme for the period.
If you want a 1/32nd scale MkVb, then Model Zone are advertising the Hasegawa kit, which is still good today, and has both prop types.(I've used 3 for conversions to MkI, MkIX and MkXIV). It might be out of stock on-line at the moment, but could possibly be available 'in store'.

 

[Wurger]

It's not your Mac but just you ... these two links to both pictures in post #23 you added are fine. Also you start them with the img tag correctly. But the second img tag at the end of these links is written wrongly. Just, you omitted "/" sign in them. So it should have been [/img]. And then all would be OK. Check please. Hit the Edit Post button and add the "/" sign to the existing img tag at the end of each link. And then hit Save button.

 

[Crimea_River]

Hi Gerry. Glad to see you getting back into this project. I won't be of much help with regard to particulars of this aircraft but will simply offer encouragement in hopes that you not get too frustrutated about the lack of available information. I've learned from my Me 410 thread that I get just a s much personal satisfaction from weighing the best availble evidence from experts to come up with what an aircraft arguably looked like as when I had replicated an exact model from pictures. At the end of the day, someone like yourself with in interest in authenticity will come up with a fitting tribute to Funicane that no-one can categorically say is wrong.

 

[Gerry]

Thanks for you prompt responses, Terry and Andy, I'll give a fuller response later - just going for a bit of tea now. Wurger THANK YOU! I finally spotted where I was going wrong from your latest post and as you can see it's corrected. So I'm not just slow but blind as well...

 

[Wurger]

No problem. Also I edited the rest of links too. Because you posted links to sites but not to a particular image I have left them too. Of course I had to guess which pictures you wanted to show us.I hope I chose them correctly.

 

[Airframes]

OK Gerry, just to clarify. I was slightly wrong in my comment regarding the pic of the Spit being rolled-out in February 1942.
The colour scheme change was effective as of August 1941, changing from Dark Green/Dark Earth/Sky, to Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey, and with the yellow leading edge wing stripes, sky spinner and tail band.
The Type C underwing roundels, and Type C1 fuselage roundels, were introduced in July 1942.
The original issue of the Airfix 1/48th Spit MkV (1979?) included decals for 'Queen Salote', with a plain shamrock, but no serial number. I'd need to look into this more, but it may well be the number was obscured by the Sky tail band.
BTW, I have this decal sheet if it's of any use to you?

 

[Gerry]

Firstly, Wurger, thanks again for making those further corrections to the links in this thread. You got them all bang-on to what I was originally aiming for, with the correct images now on view.

Andy, thanks for your words of encouragement. When I came back into this hobby, a couple of years ago, I would have been quite happy just to do a decent build of a typical aircraft of the period, without ascribing it to a particular aircraft or pilot. However, having discovered this Forum, and its high standards, I discovered how much more interesting and satisfying it is to go for a specific aircraft. I do, however, agree with your philosophy and believe that, if you make an honest attempt to build something based on the best available references combined with some intelligent guesswork, sometimes that's all you can do. Otherwise, I find I can be paralysed by indecision, rather than just getting on with it.

Terry, any refs you may be able to dig out would be more than welcome. I will follow up your lead on the Hasegawa kit. As it happens, I will be in London in February and if it's not available on the internet by then, I can check out Model Zone in Holborn, while I'm there. Thanks for your confirmation of the colour schemes, and I take it from what you're saying that the earlier roundels would be correct for all builds? Do you have anything you could post that shows the difference between the two styles? It would be very useful for future reference. Thanks for the kind offer of the decals. I will come back to you on that when I decide which scale I'm going with.

 

[Airframes]

Gerry, the Type C1 roundels are as shown in the profile of Paddy's 'BF*' in Post#18, whilst the earlier Type A1 roundels are as per the top photo in your Post#23.

 

[Tony Hill]

Gerry,

I've pulled all my books apart looking for more info over the last couple of months.....no luck sorry. Even M&S list BM308 as Paddy's but don't have any other details I can find. I've got a great book listing the aircraft serials with each Squadron from July '40 to October '40...but nothing after...sorry mate!!

 

[Wayne Little]

Look forward to your build Gerry can't offer much on the Spitty not my forte but here to help in any other way....just like everyone else...

 

[Gerry]

Thanks Terry. I'm looking into that change in the roundels more thoroughly. Darryl and Wayne, I appreciate you taking the effort. The thing would be to start the build, as internally there shouldn't be too much difference between the aircraft. I'll worry about the codes and finish later, by which time I may have found some further references.

Sláinte, Gerry

 

[Tony Hill]

Gerry,

I am not sure what resources you wish to put into this...but the Squadron log (they were SRB, Squadron Record Book in the first war, not sure about WW2..Operations RB's??) MAY have details of aircraft flying and who. Also, Paddy's Combat Reports will probably list the aircraft he was flying at the time, if he scored at all in the aircraft you are looking for, along with any pilots and aircraft with him (useful for "exclusion" of numbers also). Unfortunatley although I have probably 80% of Combats in the Air Reports from the "first great unpleasantness", I have only a handful from the second war.

These types of records are available for search and examination at the National Archives (formerly PRO) and plenty of researchers will chase things at very reasonable cost. Again I could give you just about every file number containing CitARs from RFC/RAF up to '18 but don't have any info from 1918 on...

Anyhow, probably not something you want to do..but an option,

Darryl

 

[Gerry]

Thanks Darryl. I think a few phone calls, while I'm in London, to the National Archives at Kew, and to the RAF Museum at Hendon, where they have a display dedicated to Brendan, might give me some idea of whether I could easily access those items easily. I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers

 

[Crimea_River]

Hi Gerry, just stumbled on this thread at TOCH :Newly discovered photo of Paddy Finucane's Spitfire - Page 2 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Maybe it has some new info for you. Let me know if there are areas you can't access.

 

[Tony Hill]

Check out last post on the thread CR referenced... "Flavio" may have access to the logbook or a summary of it. It would be worth trying to contact him.

The photo is the same one I referenced in post 12.

 

[Gerry]

Check out last post on the thread CR referenced... "Flavio" may have access to the logbook or a summary of it. It would be worth trying to contact him.

The photo is the same one I referenced in post 12.

Andy and Darryl, Thanks for providing the link. There's certainly photos there that I haven't see before, but nothing definitive on the aircraft. The discussion about Finucane's aircraft on that forum is very interesting. If Flavio's post is correct, it explains the half-hidden serial on Darryl's photo and makes sense of the 602 Squadron aircraft in the background. BTW, do you think that's the same Flavio who posts on this Forum?