Crimea_River
Marshal
Could be him but he's not been around that often.
Brendan 'Paddy' Finucane Spitfire Mk Vb.
- Thread starter Gerry
- Start date
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First of all apologize me for answering so late, but I noted this thread only yesterday thanks to a PM from Gerry.
I would like to add my contribution about Finucane's personal planes:
Spitfire BM124:
•it is a presentation Spitfire donated to Britain by Queen Salote of Tonga. It was assigned to 602 Sqn on 16 March '42 when Finucane choose it as personal plane, painting on it his Shamrock insignia and the lucky "W" individual letter; he flown it until 18 June '42 when he hit the ground with a wingtip as he landed at Redhill (BM124 was repaired few days later). Finucane gained with it his last claims: 2 confirmed kills, 2 shared destroyed, 4 probables and 4 damaged.
•IWM keeps three photos about this plane nr CH5575, CH 5576, CH5577; I tried to order them (and I paid correctly for all three) but unfortunately I received only the first two: these however do not add additional info (I live in Italy and it is very difficult for me to go there personally. Maybe someone can be luckier and access to picture nr CH5577). Both show BM124 with Flt. Sgt. William "Bill" Loud in the spring/summer 1942 at the same time when the photo published in the book "Gifts of War" was made.
•Note the inverted not mirror imaged A-type scheme. No trace of the serial number (it was not censored but over painted by camouflage and fuselage band).
•Between the words "Queen" and "Salote" there is a strange painting and this painting appears different in photo CH5575 and CH5576, although these were taken in the same moment: it seem like an erasure made by some wartime censor, even if it is difficult to image a so secret information to hide.
Here a list of the "personal" planes flown by Finucane during the war; I collected these info from Finucane's Flying Logbook (I bought some photocopies from National Archivies) and Squadron ORBs; I marked some of them with a number "[*]" just for my reference.
no A/C code time sq claims (ind)
[1] Spitfire VB UD-W (AB852) 9/41 No 452 Sqn 8 (8]
[2] Spitfire VB LO-W (BM124) 5/42 No 602 Sqn 12 (2)
[3] Spitfire II YT-W (R6818] 8/40 No 65 Sqn 5 (2)
[4] Spitfire VB LO-W (BL822) 3/42 No 602 Sqn 0 (0)
[5] Spitfire VB UD-W (AB972) 10/41 No 452 Sqn 6 (4)
[6] Spitfire II YT-N (R6712) 7/40 No 65 Sqn 0 (0)
Spitfire II (P8038] 7/41 No 452 sqn 6 (3)
Spitfire II (P8170) 8/41 No 452 sqn 4 (3)
Spitfire VB (AD536) 3/42 Co No 602 sqn 3 (1)
Spitfire I (X4478] 1/41 No 65 sqn 1 (1)
Spitfire II (P7752) 1/41 No 65 sqn 1 (0)
Spitfire II (P7694) 2/41 No 65 sqn 1 (1)
Spitfire II (P7894) 4/41 No 65 sqn 1 (1)
Spitfire VB LO-W (BL548] 2/42 Co No 602 sqn 1 (0)
Spitfire II (R6886) 9/40 No 65 Sqn 0
Spitfire II (P9454) 10/40 No 65 Sqn 0
Spitfire II (X4172) 3/41 No 65 Sqn 0
Spitfire I (X4683) 4/41 No 452 Sqn 0
Spitfire VB BF(?) (BM308] 7/42 Hornchurch Wg 0
Flavio
Last edited:
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Great info Flavio, well done.
Nice work Flavio!
Crimea_River
Marshal
I agree. Now if only Gerry would come back!
Hi all,
I would like to share with you my last work about Finucane, as I tried to image how Spitfire Mk IIA P8038 could have appeared when flown by Finucane.
The profile is based on the only existing photos of P8038 (as far as I know), when it was in charge to No 303 Polish Squadron and coded "RF-W" (refer to this post: Modelling without passion • Zobacz w).
The profile is high speculative and it is based on the following.
Spitfire P8038 was collected by pilots of No 452 Sqn on 18 May 1941 along with other 5 Spitfires; three other followed between 19-22 May and 4 more on 4 June: all these planes come from No 303 Sqn as new Spitfires MkIIB arrived to replaced them. I think these planes carried full 303 Sqn markings when arrived at 452, and the only repainting was the replacing of Sqn markings: from "RF" to "UD". I suspect the individual letter was not changed, at least on P8038, that kept "W", and for this reason choosen by Finucane as his personal plane.
According with some photos of Spitfire of 452 at that time the code "UD" was smaller than the previous "RF", thus the code letters on P8038 had different height.
The presence of the shamrock is confirmed by D.Stokes at pag. 53 of his book "Paddy Finucane" where we can find an accurate description.
Your comment will be welcome.
Flavio
I would like to share with you my last work about Finucane, as I tried to image how Spitfire Mk IIA P8038 could have appeared when flown by Finucane.
The profile is based on the only existing photos of P8038 (as far as I know), when it was in charge to No 303 Polish Squadron and coded "RF-W" (refer to this post: Modelling without passion • Zobacz w).
The profile is high speculative and it is based on the following.
Spitfire P8038 was collected by pilots of No 452 Sqn on 18 May 1941 along with other 5 Spitfires; three other followed between 19-22 May and 4 more on 4 June: all these planes come from No 303 Sqn as new Spitfires MkIIB arrived to replaced them. I think these planes carried full 303 Sqn markings when arrived at 452, and the only repainting was the replacing of Sqn markings: from "RF" to "UD". I suspect the individual letter was not changed, at least on P8038, that kept "W", and for this reason choosen by Finucane as his personal plane.
According with some photos of Spitfire of 452 at that time the code "UD" was smaller than the previous "RF", thus the code letters on P8038 had different height.
The presence of the shamrock is confirmed by D.Stokes at pag. 53 of his book "Paddy Finucane" where we can find an accurate description.
Your comment will be welcome.
Flavio
Tony Hill
Tech Sergeant
Very nice!
Crimea_River
Marshal
Great stuff Flavio. Hope Gerry comes back to see what you've done.
sweet, great work Flavio!
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I agree, well done.
- Thread starter
- #51
Gerry
Staff Sergeant
Hi Guys, I'm back.
Just to say I haven't been idle since my last post. I've managed to get to London on a couple of occasions, and while there have done a load of research on 'Paddy' Finucane (I'll continue to call him by his given name, Brendan, if I may). I've got to the National Archives, where I was able to access both his ORBs and combat reports for 65, 452, and 602 Squadrons, which are all now available online, and his flying logs which are available by personal visit only. I also got out to the research unit at the RAF Museum, Hendon, where I found other interesting background information on his time in the RAF and came away with photocopies of his log between Sept '41 and July'42 - the other pages are missing from their collection. I also got into the photographic collection at the Imperial War Museum, where I found some very interesting information on the photos posted below.
I have been neglecting this forum a bit, but only because I've been posting to a local (Irish) forum where I found a number of equally enthusiastic Finucane enthusiasts. You can see what we discussed at: Brendan "Paddy" Finucane, Spitfire MkVb - Aircraft Modelling - IPMS Ireland Forum where there are some really good references posted as well. I was waiting until I had something positive to post before coming back to you here.
Flavio had posted to this other site and we've been corresponding together for some time now, and sharing our research, so I'm up to date on the material he's posted here. What I didn't know, is that he has compiled a very good series of profiles of Finucane's aircraft which he has very generously agreed to allow me to use in my research compilation, which I'm preparing. Flavio is also hoping to publish his profiles and research on the internet at some point in the future.
I've also had great support from other members of the Irish forum, particularly, Filip Servit, who's also generously donated some of his profiles and, among others, NoelH and Edgar Brooks. Between us, we have managed to nail down a couple of facts and dates on Brendan's aircraft which may prove useful.
Below would be my main findings. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything in the IWM photographic files on BM.308, 'BF'. I did however, have more luck in resolving some other questions, in particular the reason for the change in the design of Brendan's shamrock on the two aircraft below.
I can now definitely confirm that this photo shows Brendan climbing from the cockpit of AB.852 UD-W. This is confirmed from the original caption I found in IWM files, that dates the photo as being taken on 20/9/41, returning after he shot down three aircraft. He was flying AB.852 on this date.
The above photo again can be definitely confirmed as Brendan in the cockpit of AB.972 UD-W from the photograph's date of 13/10/41 and the caption referring to Brendan's "21st Birthday next Thursday." He was definitely flying this aircraft at this time.
The information I found on BM.124 LO-W, in the IWM files is even more interesting. There are two other shots in the series showing close-up shots of Sgt. Loud on the wing and closer views of the name on the cowling. In all three shots there is an erasure between the words 'Queen Salote'. You can see it quite clearly on the photo above. The erasures are different on each shot meaning they weren't originally on the airframe but erased on the negatives.
I thought at first that this might have been an inappropriate cartoon of Queen Salote. However, in the Air Ministry files that accompany the photos, I found an amendment notice from the Air Ministry requesting that the photos be amended from "Queen of Salote" to "Queen Salote". The photos were taken on 21/5/42. The amendment notice issued on 27/5/42. This is right during the period that BF was flying the aircraft. I would conclude from this information, that Brendan flew the aircraft incorrectly titled "Queen of Salote" until the error was spotted. I would think that then a directive would have been issued to the squadron to correct the error on the airframe by painting out the offensive 'of'. Brendan then continued to fly this aircraft until June 18 (ORBs and Log), so presumably, he also flew it with the correct title on. So I believe that it would be correct to represent this aircraft as both "Queen of Salote' and "Queen Salote".
One other interesting fact I found was that for the month of July 1940, his first posting to 65 Sqn., he recorded his sorties by individual aircraft code letter, rather than by aircraft serial No., as he did from August '40 on (thanks to Flavio for supplying these pages). This allowed me to cross reference the codes to the serials for that period in the ORBs, something I'd hoped to be able to do for all his aircraft, but without further success. However from this, I believe I can identify the first 'W' coded Spitfire he flew operationally: Spitfire Mk1a N.3128 YT-W, on 22/7/40 and 25/7/40.
I have compiled a document from my research listing all the aircraft BF flew operationally, with victories credited, and illustrated with photographs and the profiles mentioned above. I'm just revising this in the light of the new research, and would hope to make it available, as a PDF, by PM to anyone who might be interested in the next week or so.
I'm hoping now to get started on the build for BM.124 LO-W but I haven't decided yet which version of the name I'll go with. While I was in London, I tried to get the Hasegewa 1/32 Spitfire MkV kit as Terry suggested. Unfortunately, when I tried Model Zone, I was told they had sold the last one the previous week and it was now discontinued! Typical! As they had one kit for the Hobby Boss 1/32 MkV left in the store, I bought that instead. That's the kit I'll be building.
Hope you'll find my conclusions interesting.
Gerry
Just to say I haven't been idle since my last post. I've managed to get to London on a couple of occasions, and while there have done a load of research on 'Paddy' Finucane (I'll continue to call him by his given name, Brendan, if I may). I've got to the National Archives, where I was able to access both his ORBs and combat reports for 65, 452, and 602 Squadrons, which are all now available online, and his flying logs which are available by personal visit only. I also got out to the research unit at the RAF Museum, Hendon, where I found other interesting background information on his time in the RAF and came away with photocopies of his log between Sept '41 and July'42 - the other pages are missing from their collection. I also got into the photographic collection at the Imperial War Museum, where I found some very interesting information on the photos posted below.
I have been neglecting this forum a bit, but only because I've been posting to a local (Irish) forum where I found a number of equally enthusiastic Finucane enthusiasts. You can see what we discussed at: Brendan "Paddy" Finucane, Spitfire MkVb - Aircraft Modelling - IPMS Ireland Forum where there are some really good references posted as well. I was waiting until I had something positive to post before coming back to you here.
Flavio had posted to this other site and we've been corresponding together for some time now, and sharing our research, so I'm up to date on the material he's posted here. What I didn't know, is that he has compiled a very good series of profiles of Finucane's aircraft which he has very generously agreed to allow me to use in my research compilation, which I'm preparing. Flavio is also hoping to publish his profiles and research on the internet at some point in the future.
I've also had great support from other members of the Irish forum, particularly, Filip Servit, who's also generously donated some of his profiles and, among others, NoelH and Edgar Brooks. Between us, we have managed to nail down a couple of facts and dates on Brendan's aircraft which may prove useful.
Below would be my main findings. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything in the IWM photographic files on BM.308, 'BF'. I did however, have more luck in resolving some other questions, in particular the reason for the change in the design of Brendan's shamrock on the two aircraft below.
I can now definitely confirm that this photo shows Brendan climbing from the cockpit of AB.852 UD-W. This is confirmed from the original caption I found in IWM files, that dates the photo as being taken on 20/9/41, returning after he shot down three aircraft. He was flying AB.852 on this date.
The above photo again can be definitely confirmed as Brendan in the cockpit of AB.972 UD-W from the photograph's date of 13/10/41 and the caption referring to Brendan's "21st Birthday next Thursday." He was definitely flying this aircraft at this time.
The information I found on BM.124 LO-W, in the IWM files is even more interesting. There are two other shots in the series showing close-up shots of Sgt. Loud on the wing and closer views of the name on the cowling. In all three shots there is an erasure between the words 'Queen Salote'. You can see it quite clearly on the photo above. The erasures are different on each shot meaning they weren't originally on the airframe but erased on the negatives.
I thought at first that this might have been an inappropriate cartoon of Queen Salote. However, in the Air Ministry files that accompany the photos, I found an amendment notice from the Air Ministry requesting that the photos be amended from "Queen of Salote" to "Queen Salote". The photos were taken on 21/5/42. The amendment notice issued on 27/5/42. This is right during the period that BF was flying the aircraft. I would conclude from this information, that Brendan flew the aircraft incorrectly titled "Queen of Salote" until the error was spotted. I would think that then a directive would have been issued to the squadron to correct the error on the airframe by painting out the offensive 'of'. Brendan then continued to fly this aircraft until June 18 (ORBs and Log), so presumably, he also flew it with the correct title on. So I believe that it would be correct to represent this aircraft as both "Queen of Salote' and "Queen Salote".
One other interesting fact I found was that for the month of July 1940, his first posting to 65 Sqn., he recorded his sorties by individual aircraft code letter, rather than by aircraft serial No., as he did from August '40 on (thanks to Flavio for supplying these pages). This allowed me to cross reference the codes to the serials for that period in the ORBs, something I'd hoped to be able to do for all his aircraft, but without further success. However from this, I believe I can identify the first 'W' coded Spitfire he flew operationally: Spitfire Mk1a N.3128 YT-W, on 22/7/40 and 25/7/40.
I have compiled a document from my research listing all the aircraft BF flew operationally, with victories credited, and illustrated with photographs and the profiles mentioned above. I'm just revising this in the light of the new research, and would hope to make it available, as a PDF, by PM to anyone who might be interested in the next week or so.
I'm hoping now to get started on the build for BM.124 LO-W but I haven't decided yet which version of the name I'll go with. While I was in London, I tried to get the Hasegewa 1/32 Spitfire MkV kit as Terry suggested. Unfortunately, when I tried Model Zone, I was told they had sold the last one the previous week and it was now discontinued! Typical! As they had one kit for the Hobby Boss 1/32 MkV left in the store, I bought that instead. That's the kit I'll be building.
Hope you'll find my conclusions interesting.
Gerry
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Excellent work Gerry! Very well done my friend, and put me down for a PDF of the research when completed.
- Thread starter
- #53
Gerry
Staff Sergeant
You're first on the list, Terry.
Tony Hill
Tech Sergeant
Gerry
So glad the research has been fruitull. The moel will look fantastic I am sure.
I would also like your research notes when vailable
Great work!
Darryl
So glad the research has been fruitull. The moel will look fantastic I am sure.
I would also like your research notes when vailable
Great work!
Darryl
Hand up here too Gerry!
- Thread starter
- #56
Gerry
Staff Sergeant
No problem Guys, Just going to need an e-mail address for you, via PM? Or I could post my address to the forum.
Gerry
Gerry
le_steph40
Senior Master Sergeant
Very great and succesfull work on your researches 
I'm very interested too
I'm very interested too
- Thread starter
- #58
Gerry
Staff Sergeant
Well after all the research I've finally broken resin (literally!) on my 1/32 Hobby Boss Spitfire MkVb build of Brendan Finucane's BM.124 LO-W. Here are the initial shots of the build. So far it's largely been cutting and sanding resin, and dry fitting.
The kit with lots of well detailed grey plastic. It's going to build into quite a big bird.
The kit includes the parts for quite a busy and accurate cockpit, especially with the canopy closed. As I'm planning to show it open, I thought I'd go the extra step and have gone for some accessories including an Aries Resin PE Cockpit set; Xtradecal set for BM.124 codes; and Brass 20mm Hispano Cannons from Master Models. I also needed the later Rotol prop, which doesn't come with the kit, despite being depicted on the box art. I got that from Grey Matter Figures in the UK.
The Aries cockpit set is designed for the Hasegawa Spitfire and needed a lot of 'coaxing' to fit the contours of the Hobby Boss fuselage. After hours of cutting and sanding the thickness of the resin parts, it fits. Not to say there won't be more fettling before it beds down in the final build, but it gives some nice extra detail. It's just tacked in place with some double sided tape to try for fit here.
Testing the main parts for dry fit. It's all quite snug, except at the wing roots which will need some filler. Don't know yet what to use here as it'll need to be quite subtle. The wing tops and undersides carry some nice detail. Will keep you posted as more progress is made.
Cheers,
Gerry
The kit with lots of well detailed grey plastic. It's going to build into quite a big bird.
The kit includes the parts for quite a busy and accurate cockpit, especially with the canopy closed. As I'm planning to show it open, I thought I'd go the extra step and have gone for some accessories including an Aries Resin PE Cockpit set; Xtradecal set for BM.124 codes; and Brass 20mm Hispano Cannons from Master Models. I also needed the later Rotol prop, which doesn't come with the kit, despite being depicted on the box art. I got that from Grey Matter Figures in the UK.
The Aries cockpit set is designed for the Hasegawa Spitfire and needed a lot of 'coaxing' to fit the contours of the Hobby Boss fuselage. After hours of cutting and sanding the thickness of the resin parts, it fits. Not to say there won't be more fettling before it beds down in the final build, but it gives some nice extra detail. It's just tacked in place with some double sided tape to try for fit here.
Testing the main parts for dry fit. It's all quite snug, except at the wing roots which will need some filler. Don't know yet what to use here as it'll need to be quite subtle. The wing tops and undersides carry some nice detail. Will keep you posted as more progress is made.
Cheers,
Gerry
Crimea_River
Marshal
Very much looking forward to this Gerry. Great to see you back.
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