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It's a matter of reach. The Navy can project national power directly to the enemy's shores, and with the advent of SSBNs, and SLCMs, into the enemy's heartland. The Army is all about winning battles on land, and even in the case of large and widespread campaigns (post D-Day, Korea, Vietnam), the focus is essentially on the battlefield, not overarching strategic concerns.Why is the Navy strategic and the Army tactical?
No, it was a matter of range. Nikes and Hawks were point defense weapons, analagous to 90MM radar directed Skysweeper AA guns, while Bomarc was a long range interceptor designed to take out Bulls, Bears, and Bisons out beyond the DEW line. With the advent of SAGE, all continental air defense (interceptors, AAA, and missiles) was controlled by a network of huge electron tube "supercomputers" run by the Air Force ADC. This was the predecessor of what we now call NORAD, but with far more primitive technology. The Army didn't have the technology or the infrastructure to target a Bomarc on a bomber 200+ NM away.the USAF managed to keep BOMARC to themselves (probably because it was labeled as a fighter)
It's a matter of reach. The Navy can project national power directly to the enemy's shores, and with the advent of SSBNs, and SLCMs, into the enemy's heartland. The Army is all about winning battles on land, and even in the case of large and widespread campaigns (post D-Day, Korea, Vietnam), the focus is essentially on the battlefield, not overarching strategic concerns.
The one flaw I see in the current system is USAFs traditional disinterest in CAS, special ops, and battlefield transport, and their insistence that they know the Army's needs better than the Army itself does. They have consistently attempted to interfere in the Army's attempts to supply its own aviation needs (Apache, Comanche, Chinook, Caribou, Buffalo, etc, etc). I think all army cooperation functions with the exception of long range heavy transport should be given to the Army.
Sorry Biff, but that's my "grunt's eye" take on the matter.
Cheers,
Wes
Thanks for the reply, Biff. I'm sorry if you misunderstood, but it was not my intention to suggest the Army should be involved in tanking or heavy lift. I was thinking more of the Buffalo/ Sherpa/Spectre-gunship sort of mission. And I admit I'm kind of out of touch with the state of the art of PGM technology. Does USAF embed CAS pilots with the infantry to do FAC duty these days, like USMC? Are ground based designators still used today, or is it all airborne turret pods?Your data, in my experience was accurate in 1990 but has changed pretty dramatically in the interim.
Yes, but in current USAF culture is a specialty in special ops a mainstream pathway to promotion, or is it still treated as an ugly stepchild? There's not much glamour, prestige, or inspirational PR in the low slow and dirty end of things.As for special ops the USAF is far more vested than you know and have been for decades.
Yes, but in current USAF culture is a specialty in special ops a mainstream pathway to promotion, or is it still treated as an ugly stepchild? There's not much glamour, prestige, or inspirational PR in the low slow and dirty end of things.
Cheers,
Wes
Thanks for the reply, Biff. I'm sorry if you misunderstood, but it was not my intention to suggest the Army should be involved in tanking or heavy lift. I was thinking more of the Buffalo/ Sherpa/Spectre-gunship sort of mission. And I admit I'm kind of out of touch with the state of the art of PGM technology. Does USAF embed CAS pilots with the infantry to do FAC duty these days, like USMC? Are ground based designators still used today, or is it all airborne turret pods?
Cheers,
Wes
I'll let Biff speak for the USAF but the RAF does still employ fast jet aircrew in the FAC role. That said, it's not always necessary if you get a bright Pongo who can think faster than 30mph and has the imagination to appreciate that a solitary tree does not constitute a viable landmark for aircrew.
The 19th USAF Cief of Staff was a Spec Ops guy.
I trained my two enlisted tactical air controllers (ETACs) in Desert Shield first by demo, then by giving them 8 hours of continuous fighters. By the end of the day I was almost horse from debriefing and they were as proficient and good as most pilots. It helped that they were sharp and eager to learn (that is an awesome thing regardless of rank). One had a near photographic memory and could really sing. He was a voice activated jukebox! Pretty cool when your HUMVE had no radio for tunes.
Cheers,
Biff
Thanks for the stories! Those kind of experiences help make the memory of ugly or boring duty more pleasant.One had a near photographic memory and could really sing. He was a voice activated jukebox! Pretty cool when your HUMVE had no radio for tunes.
"Walk a mile in my shoes...."Entirely agree with your comment about being eager to learn. I just can't resist the occasional dig at the Pongoes 'cos...well, they deserve it. I've probably mentioned this before but my old squadron was training with the Hereford Hooligans. They'd provide the FAC for our jets coming in at 100ft in the UK's OLF range. At the start, the FACs would call out "solitary tree to east of small farmhouse" and then wonder why the pilots couldn't locate the target. Our response was to invite the entire Hereford team to spend 2 days with the squadron...and we flew every one of the FACs in the back seat of a Tonka to show them what the world looked like at 540kts and 250ft. Funnily enough, after 2 days of intensive training (and even more intensive socializing), the quality of the FAC support improved dramatically. To reciprocate, the squadron was invited to Hereford and we got to practice defensive driving and try out the urban simulator. Lots of fun was had by all...coupled with yet more intensive socializing! Happy days!
That's not actually true...No, it was a matter of range.
I was responding to XBe02Drvr, though I'll see what I can do with brevity...A lot of verbiage there Zipper, but what does any of it have to do with whether we needed a independent air force, or not ??
All of what you're talking (at length) about is a later time frame from what I mentioned. SAGE was the first attempt at centralizing and integrating air defense all along the northern reaches of the continent, and as such was the only system with the capacity and range to target and control missiles with the range of Bomarc. The Air Force developed and built SAGE and was the only service with the technology to do so.That's not actually true...
The Army's air-defense role was essentially a continuation of ground-based artillery and coastal-defense: Previously part of this job was held by gunners on the ground and aircraft in the sky. When the USAF became an independent service, things sort of got balkanized.
True the Nike Zeus, Spartan, and Sprint all came later. The point is that both the USAF and US Army were capable of complex and integrated systems.All of what you're talking (at length) about is a later time frame from what I mentioned.
It's a matter of timing. When SAGE came along, only the Air Force had the technology and the budget to build it, as well as the vision to see the need for it. The Army's hi tech capabilities came along later.True the Nike Zeus, Spartan, and Sprint all came later. The point is that both the USAF and US Army were capable of complex and integrated systems.
True, but one has to consider that the USAF was carved out of the USAAF. If the USAAF was still around, it would have managed a robust air defense.It's a matter of timing.