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evangilder said:I would highly doubt that dive speed in the A6M3. The wing chord line is too thick and introduces alot of drag. 300 knots IAS is about the best you could hope for in a dive with the A6M3. That was one of Steve's comments about the Zero, and he was talking about the one that he flies regularly.
If you fly a 60 year old airplane that has not had that kind of inspection, it is a recipe for disaster. The aircraft was restored to a flyable condition in the 1990s. If you don't think these planes are as sturdy as the day they were built, you haven't spent time in a CAF hangar. Restoration entails years of work inspecting every inch of the airframe, assuring structural integrity and replacing parts that have even a hint of potential to fail.
The reason they don't push it to their limits is for safety, period. We don't want to lose a 60 year old airplane, for sure. But we certainly don't want to lose our friends either.
Soren said:I found some results on the Zero vs Spitfire test.
Test No. 1 - Commencing at 17,000 feet: (A good deal over the Zero's max maneuverability altitude !!)
1. Spitfire and Hap to approach head on and maneuver, without loss of altitude, until one aircraft gets on the other's tail.
Result:
Both aircraft passed at about 50 yards. Spitfire executed steep climbing turn. Hap steep turned and was on Spitfire's tail within 2½ turns.
2. Hap on Spitfire's Tail. Spitfire to complete 4 steep turns to left. Reform position and carry out 4 steep turns to right.
Result:
Hap was able to turn easily inside Spitfire. However, jinking was necessary to watch Spitfire and check on deflection allowance. Hap did not steep turn as easily to right as to left.
3. Spitfire on Hap's Tail. Steep turns to left and right as in previous test.
Result:
Hap commenced steep turning at 220 mph IAS. Spitfire was unable to turn with Hap., either in left or right hand turns, for more than ¾ turn by which time Spitfire was close to stall.
4. a. Hap on Spitfire's Tail. Spitfire to perform loop.
b. Spitfire on Hap's Tail. Hap to perform loop.
Result:
a. Spitfire commenced looping at 300 mph IAS with speed of 140 mph IAS on top. Hap had no trouble in following Spitfire.
b. Hap commenced lop at 220 knots IAS and completed two loops in succession. Spitfire endeavored to follow Hap and stalled at top of first loop and fell out. Hap finished on Spitfire's tail.
Even at 17,000ft and at 300mph IAS, the Zero could easely follow the Spitfire in this high speed loop
While the Zero was supremely maneuverable at low speeds, its controls became heavy at high speeds, and it rolled to the left much more easily than it rolled to the right. Also, due to its float-type carburetor design it tended to stall under negative gees, as would be encountered if the Zero were climbing and then had to drop back downward while remaining upright. An American fighter could escape the Zero by bobbing up, diving while the Zero's engine stalled, and then rolling to the right.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avzero.html
Soren said:Yes i have read them all.
But Saburo Sakai's book isnt worth much, as half of it is made up !( 'Caiden' you know ! )
The A6M2 captured in the Aleutians was damaged, and was never flown to its limits ! The engine never worked properly.
Where is this test data from? What model Spitfire?
Why does the Spitfire drop into the Zero's manuver envelope at 220 mph? Why not stay at 300 mph?
While the Zero was supremely maneuverable at low speeds, its controls became heavy at high speeds, and it rolled to the left much more easily than it rolled to the right. Also, due to its float-type carburetor design it tended to stall under negative gees, as would be encountered if the Zero were climbing and then had to drop back downward while remaining upright. An American fighter could escape the Zero by bobbing up, diving while the Zero's engine stalled, and then rolling to the right.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avzero.html
Soren said:Where is this test data from? What model Spitfire?
Vc.
Why does the Spitfire drop into the Zero's manuver envelope at 220 mph? Why not stay at 300 mph?
It is a test !! A british one !! Not a real combat situation, plus i might be a Typo, i would suspect it is 220 knots.
While the Zero was supremely maneuverable at low speeds, its controls became heavy at high speeds, and it rolled to the left much more easily than it rolled to the right. Also, due to its float-type carburetor design it tended to stall under negative gees, as would be encountered if the Zero were climbing and then had to drop back downward while remaining upright. An American fighter could escape the Zero by bobbing up, diving while the Zero's engine stalled, and then rolling to the right.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avzero.html
Oh you shouldnt have brought that up, that problem was long gone with the Hap Lunatic !!
Soren said:Lieut. Comdr. ER Sanders A6M2 report of September 29, 1942:
All controls are very light, free from friction and all are over-balanced statically. High maneuverability at normal speeds is obtained with small control movement. The ailerons are unusually long and lateral control is excellent right down to the stall. Aileron forces increase with speed. They are still fair around 200 KTS to 210 KTS, but at 230 to 250 KTS they practically freeze up and fast rolling cannot be done at 250 KTS
RG_Lunatic said:Which are true speeds, probably below 8,000 feet (as going higher required a refit with O2 equipment).
"practically freeze up" is the critical part of the evaluation, don't you think?
=S=
Lunatic