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How did the F11F-1F compare to the F11F-1?Weight empty (lbs)
F11F 16.5k
F8U 15.5k
F-104 13k
You also have to consider the ramifications on thrust/weight. The J79's had thrust ratings that were similar to the J57 with a higher afterburner fraction.Weight (combat) (lbs)
F11F 21443
F8U 23659*
F-104 17768
* While the F8U had more fuel than the F11F, it was not as aerodynamically clean as the F11F as the F11F was over 100 mph faster at sea level with similar thrust, therefore, the F8U would use more fuel to perform the same mission.
I thought the F8U-1 could do at least 1.7 mach if not Mach 2.0 (I remember, they planned to add area ruling, and should performance not add up, they'd make additional modifications to get it to Mach 2.0). One must consider that the actual capability is low-balled, and sometimes out of context (say 36,000 feet instead of 65,000 feet where it'd do best).Speed max (mph/M/altitude(1000 ft))
F11F 1400/2.04/40k (note this max speed but at a higher altitude than the other two). Speed at 35k is 1325/2.01
F8U 1013/1.53/35k
F-104 1324/2.01/35k
I can't really vouch for the F8U but, the F-100 didn't handle as good at altitude so far as I know...Ceiling (ft)
F11F 50k (some sources say 59k)
F8U 58k
F-104 55k
Wing loading (combat) (lbs/sqft)
Wing loading is not an absolute measurement for a plane's maneuverability. Aspect ratio is also important: The F-11F's was around 4, the F8U around 3.4, and the F-104 around 2.4. A big difference, and I've seen footage of the F11F-1 maneuvering, it didn't look bad.F11F 86
F8U 63
F-104 90
Actually the Germans were interested in it for their fighter-bomber, the Japanese for their interceptor.Foreign military sales were another issue. There is no doubt the F11F would have been a far better choice for foreign sales than the F-104.
Really shows what power can do...In my pilot training class there was one Afghanistan student who had taken two years to get through the one year course. His father was head of the Afghanistani Air Force and the USAF was determined to graduate him, dropping him back from class to class.
Actually if Tommy Thomason is correct, the F-11 was generally well remembered for it's basic handling, it had few handling quirks and vices. It just didn't have enough power.The wing loading looks like what did it in. I bet its low speed handling was dicey.
Is this with all on internal fuel or the F8U-1 on internal fuel, F11F-1F on drop-tanks?Range
Roughly equivalent
Is this with all on internal fuel or the F8U-1 on internal fuel, F11F-1F on drop-tanks?
Was there any political issues against the F11F-1 vs the F8U?
If those ranges are correct, that would probably require external tanks for the F11F-1F to meet the F8U's range (those range figures far as I know are from the F-8A).Hard to say, probably with internal fuel. F11F-1F had 914 gallons internal with max combat range of 1136 miles, F8U-1 had 1272 gallons internal with a combat range of 1474.
Yeah, the F8U was a stretch for Mach 2, though the F8U-2's might have been faster as there was a small bypass door to deal with excessive air-pressure in the duct (there could be another reason though).But the F11F-1F was a true Mach 2 aircraft.
I don't recall anything about the aircraft being flimsy by the standard of it's era. Sure, it had all kinds of other problems, but I never heard anything regarding strength.I have read that the early J-79 in the F-104 had a fairly poor reputation, as being quite fragile, although I don't know how it compared to the J-65 in the F11F with regard to reliability or serviceability.
If those ranges are correct, that would probably require external tanks for the F11F-1F to meet the F8U's range (those range figures far as I know are from the F-8A).
Yeah, the F8U was a stretch for Mach 2, though the F8U-2's might have been faster as there was a small bypass door to deal with excessive air-pressure in the duct (there could be another reason though).
I don't recall anything about the aircraft being flimsy by the standard of it's era. Sure, it had all kinds of other problems, but I never heard anything regarding strength.
Unreliable at least, I remember reading about the following problemsThe J-79 was what I heard had the reputation for fragility.
A dumpling? LOL! That must have been a hell of a dumpling...At least one aircraft was lost when the engine was FOD'ed by a dumpling.
If those ranges are correct, that would probably require external tanks for the F11F-1F to meet the F8U's range (those range figures far as I know are from the F-8A).
Yeah, the F8U was a stretch for Mach 2, though the F8U-2's might have been faster as there was a small bypass door to deal with excessive air-pressure in the duct (there could be another reason though).
I don't recall anything about the aircraft being flimsy by the standard of it's era. Sure, it had all kinds of other problems, but I never heard anything regarding strength.
Bavarian. A person living on one on the approach paths of a Luftwaffe runway used a catapult to shoot them at aircraft coming in. One dumpling went into the intake. J79s used a lot of variable geometry in the compressor. The IGV probably failed. I don't know what standards the AF had for FOD tolerance, but I've read several USAF aircraft needed mods to meet their standards for impact resistance, especially for the front end of the canopy, so the USAF's may have been less stringent than the civil standards.What kind of dumpling are we talking about?
Okay, I can understand that: My mom had a German friend and apparently those things were like little bowling balls.Bavarian.
Which ones if I may ask?I've read several USAF aircraft needed mods to meet their standards for impact resistance, especially for the front end of the canopy
I honestly can't remember, but the RAF operated few US combat aircraft. It may have been the F-4M.Okay, I can understand that: My mom had a German friend and apparently those things were like little bowling balls.
Which ones if I may ask?
I have an image of the F11F-1 and F11F-1F wings. The F11F-1 had a wingspan of 31'7.5" and 250 ft^2 of overall wing-area: With that said, can you compute the extra wing-area of the F11F-1F (it's the area in black)
I'm confused, what was the wing-area on non-filleted variants of the F11F Tiger?Zipper, I dunno who made that pictorial comparison but I feel certain it's between the short nosed prototype (note the fin shape) and the long nosed F11F-1 (second batch - F11A) version.