Disaster at Bari, Italy

[razor1uk]

We had those too Juha in the UK, but even post WW2, we/the UK still had some unused WW1 chemical weapons left scattered around among our older un/lesser-used storage sites.
Although I was also refering to all major nations having similar stockpiles of older material post WW1 - if you have say guns and motars still for firing/launching such rounds, and the stockpiles are ok with a little 'dusting-off', why loose the pre-nuke-equivelent of a 'Sword of Damocles'.

Parts of Europe, within Germany, Hungary Poland, let alone in Russia other associated countries are still suffering some enviromental human poisening by chemical/biological weapons stores/caches burried/built-over-postwar; be they intentially, unknown, or ignored due to a lack of the required huge enviro-cleaning funds due to those chemical/bio stockpiled in the World Wars eras.

 

[Erich]

interesting back in 1949, post war how the US did not know the true angle of the LW attack nor the amount of Ju 88A's coming in from three directions nor the true ID and the bases that they came from.

 

[Ratsel]

which bases in Greece were the attacks on Bari launched from?

 

[Erich]

bases in northern Italy and for LG 1 at Eleusis later in Crete.

 

[Ratsel]

Eleusis.. geez thats like a 800km one way trip to avoid the allies on the Ionian Sea. JU 88's I assume?

 

[Erich]

all Ju 88A's probably A-4's and most likely landing and refueling at secondary bases to get back to their own Fields

 

[Ratsel]

I was just going to suggest the possibility of a refueling base, an old friend on mine told me there was one just north of Mazarakia, Greece ( about 400km NW from Eleusis ).

 

[parsifal]

Have an article at home somewhere, gives command structure and some basic planning and prep details for the raid. nothin special, but might be of interest.

It was one of the best planned operations by the LW in my opinion, alng with the bombing of the USAAC bombers following the raids on Ploesti....destroying over 100 Bombers in one night. Impressive stuff IMO

 

[Ratsel]

heres another pretty good read on the Bari raid: World War II: German Raid on Bari

 

[TheMustangRider]

First time I hear about this raid, very interesting.

 

[Erich]

Parsifal please post what you have, either there is nothing written about KG 's in book form or what has been written in German texts is much much too brief-paragraph or two.

most of the KG gruppen were based in northern Italy so this would not really be a problem though it would be nice to have a secondary or 3rd German source for aid in this matter............

 

[Ratsel]

Apon further reading, when the German strike force was assembled, there were only 105 Ju-88s available for the mission. But the element of surprise with an attack Most of the planes would come from Italy, but Richthofen purposely wanted to confuse the Allies by using a few Ju-88s from Yugoslavia. If the Allies thought the entire mission originated from there, they just might misdirect retaliatory strikes to the Balkans. It seems that for this particular raid, no bases in Greece were utilized.

 

[Erich]

III./LG had a small section flying out of Eleusis in Greece the remainder of the gruppe was based at Heraklion in Crete..........

I./KG 30 at Ghedi and Piacenza

II./KG 30 at Villafranca

I./KG 54 at Cameri

II./KG 54 at Bergamo

I./KG 76 at Villaorba

this is it.............in all about 100 Ju 88A's. this is from research done from Germany, no A/C from Yugoslavia involved on this operation.

 

[kettbo]

Dornier's using Fritz X in sinking the ROMA in SEPT and DEC attack on Bari. Late 1943 one could conclude the LW's demonstrated strike potential figured heavily into planning.

Cannot find reference to attacks on US bomber bases after Ploesti, maybe a date would help. 100+ bombers destroyed?

 

[Erich]

there were NO Do's with Fritz X at Bari as the bombing/torpedoing was not high level altitude; as I stated they were all Ju 88's.

KG 54 with Ju 88 torpedo bombers dropped LT 350's into the harbored ships.

not sure what you guys are using for references but they are no correct.

 

[parsifal]

Dornier's using Fritz X in sinking the ROMA in SEPT and DEC attack on Bari. Late 1943 one could conclude the LW's demonstrated strike potential figured heavily into planning.

Cannot find reference to attacks on US bomber bases after Ploesti, maybe a date would help. 100+ bombers destroyed?

Poltava, 22 June 1944.

At 12:30 a.m. on June 22, the first German airplane swept over Poltava, dropping flares to illuminate the field. Close behind came the strike force of 150 bombers. The attack lasted for almost two hours, unhampered by anything resembling an air defense. The Luftwaffe destroyed 43 of the B-17s on the ramp and damaged another 26 (most of which were subsequently scrapped). There were no losses to the attacking Luftwaffe bombing forces. 15 P-51s and assorted Russian aircraft were destroyed as well. In addition to the 26 damaged b-17s, an additional 8 or so P-51s were damaged, and an unknown number of Soviet a/c. Total losses approached the 100 mark. Additionally the German bombs ignited 450,000 gallons of high-octane fuel, which had been brought to Poltava with grievous effort. Most of the munitions in the bomb dump were also lost. Some argue that the losses caused an unredeeemable fracture in US-Soviet relations in the reriminations that followed. Certainly there was a marked falling off in the degree of effort for operation Frantic....the code name for the shuttle bombing efforts that had been agreed to at Casablanca.

 

[Ratsel]

III./LG had a small section flying out of Eleusis in Greece the remainder of the gruppe was based at Heraklion in Crete..........

I rechecked, and you are 100% correct, JU 88's were stationed there, in fact, there is still an airport in Eleusis. an interesting sidenote is that Bf109's use to patrol between Eleusis and Kalamaki.

 

[Crimea_River]

Great thread everyone. Definitely enlightening.

 

[Ratsel]

Poltava, 22 June 1944.

At 12:30 a.m. on June 22, the first German airplane swept over Poltava, dropping flares to illuminate the field. Close behind came the strike force of 150 bombers. The attack lasted for almost two hours, unhampered by anything resembling an air defense. The Luftwaffe destroyed 43 of the B-17s on the ramp and damaged another 26 (most of which were subsequently scrapped). There were no losses to the attacking Luftwaffe bombing forces. 15 P-51s and assorted Russian aircraft were destroyed as well. In addition to the 26 damaged b-17s, an additional 8 or so P-51s were damaged, and an unknown number of Soviet a/c. Total losses approached the 100 mark. Additionally the German bombs ignited 450,000 gallons of high-octane fuel, which had been brought to Poltava with grievous effort. Most of the munitions in the bomb dump were also lost. Some argue that the losses caused an unredeeemable fracture in US-Soviet relations in the reriminations that followed. Certainly there was a marked falling off in the degree of effort for operation Frantic....the code name for the shuttle bombing efforts that had been agreed to at Casablanca.

The Allies used Poltava as one of its airbases for Operation Frantic. I thought there was only 75 or so B-17s there at the time. Thanks for the additional information.

 

[parsifal]

I dont have additional information on Luftwafe deployment, but i do have some first hand accounts from RNVR personnel attached to the 24th and 25th MTB flotillas that took part in the rescue efforts.

Ther appears to be some doubt about ship numbers lost. I am no expert on this, but Allied eyewitness accounts and diary entries count 17 merchantmen from the two convoys in the harbour. There were an additional two or three Italian ships/boats in the harbour not part of the military convoys as far as i can tell, plus the MTB Depot ship 5 MTBs from the two flotillaas, an unknown number of non-operational MTBs. There may well have been 28 vessels in the harbour, but not more than 17 attached to the two convoys.

Here is the article, taken from BBC Peoples War (but I have seen the article in the Coastal Forces Association Magazine as well). Skip to main content

Five boats from the 24th flotilla were inside the boundaries of the harbour. MTB 86 lay alongside the bow of HMS VIENNA about to undergo an engine change. MTB 85 was out of the water on the slips being repaired and repainted. MTB's 81, 242 and 243 were alongside in the old harbour. Several boats of the 20th flotilla were also involved.

MTB's 97, 89 and 84 were at Komiza. And 226 had left Bari the night before the raid to sail to the island for operational orders.
At four o'clock in the afternoon, the non duty watch were allowed to take the Liberty boat ashore, and this meant the only half of each crew were aboard. A foreign film with English sub-titles was being shown in the cinema in Bari for all service units, and most of the crews took advantage of this free show.

A total of seventeen merchant vessels were sunk in the harbour, and several others were badly damaged, including HMS VIENNA the Coastal Force depot ship, whose damage was caused by near miss bomb blast. One of the vessels sunk SS PUCK, had amid its cargo, engines and spare parts for the 24th and 20th flotillas. MTB 86 was awaiting the engines she carried as replacements. The major factor however, in the disaster that followed, was the blowing up of USS JOHN HARVEY, which in addition to its cargo of arms and ammunition, carried a large quantity of liquid mustard gas contained in carboys stacked on the upper deck. It was not intended to use it, and was held in a stock pile, in case it was needed as retaliation should the Germans decide to resort to its use.
The JOHN HARVEY was repeatedly hit and set on fire burning fiercely until the ammunition went off with a great explosion. When the dust settled, the liquid mustard gas lay on the surface of the sea, mixing with oil and other fuels used by the sunken vessels.
In addition to HMS VIENNA, many MTB's of the 24th and 20th flotillas suffered damage of varying degrees. The biggest casualty was MTB 296, which was so badly damaged that she was written off and out of the war. Fortunately for the 24th flotilla, the damage suffered, was by comparison, of a less serious nature, and all nine boats were eventually able to make the patrol line.
Amid the chaos and confusion which followed the departure of the German bombers, every MTB that could move was ordered to go to the rescue of the merchant seamen in the water, and those still trapped aboard blazing vessels. MTB's 81, 242 and 243, although only partly crewed, started up and crept around the harbour, picking up seamen from the acrid fumes coming from the surface of the water, and getting as near to burning hulks as they could to pluck off stranded crew members. Several merchant sailors had managed to get to the east wall walk way, and these too were rescued.
It became apparent that some of those in the water were so badly injured that they were unable to clamber aboard the MTB's. Several of the officers and crews stripped off their trousers and upper clothes to assist those in the water to get aboard.

Lt L.V. Strong DSC RNVR, Skipper of MTB 81.

" On returning to harbour, after the attack, we had been ashore, we found the whole area an inferno, with the water in places afire. Our four MTB's were at the quayside apparently undamaged. I was ordered verbally by NOIC's flags to set about rescue work, as I was the Senior Officer present. I was about to ask him for the order in writing then NOIC himself appeared and gave the order, jumping aboard 81 at the same time. We found an Italian 5000 ton ship with her stern on fire lying against a Liberty ship, which NOIC said was full of bombs and ammunition and had a coil of rope on fire. 81 got a line from the ship and we towed it clear by approximately 100 yards, by going full ahead on all three engines. NOIC then took all our extinguishers and boarded the Liberty ship which had been abandoned".

Lt C.R. Holloway RNVR, Skipper of MTB 242
Note in his diary dated 2/12/1943

"Air raid on Bari Harbour by Luftwaffe. Crew of MTB 242 up all night rescuing merchant seamen from burning ships and in the water. Seventeen merchant ships sank over 1000 people killed."

Lt E Young RNVR, Skipper of MTB 86.

" We were alongside HMS VIENNA's port bow all night awaiting new engines and some spare parts which were part of SS PUCK's cargo. She was one of the merchant vessels that sank in Bari Harbour. Some of my crew assisted in the saving of merchant seamen's lives".
Although VIENNA was badly damaged by the effects of bomb blast, 86 was shielded by her, and came out of the inferno comparatively unscathed. Lt Young took 86 out of Bari the following morning and sailed down to the Coastal Forces base of Brindisi on two engines. Upon arrival the skipper and most of his crew were taken to hospital and detained for treatment to their mustard gas blisters and burns.

Lt P.H. Hyslop RNVR, Skipper of MTB 85.

" My boat MTB 85, was out of the water on a slipway in the north western corner of Bari Harbour. When I returned to the quayside, I commandeered an Italian boat and used it as a rescue craft."

Lt H.C.H. Du Boulay RNVR, Skipper of MTB 243.

" I was driving 243 all the time in the Bari air raid, and we picked up 40 to 50 survivors of every nationality under the sun.