**** DONE: 1/48 Messerschmitt Bf 110 G-2 - Me/ Fw Group Build.

[Gerry]

Thanks Jerry Andy. I'll sit down and try both of those suggestions. Will let you know how I get on.

 

[javlin]

Nice work Gerry esp. the gear

 

[Vic Balshaw]

A common problem. Here's how I do it. Start by painting the red colour at the front of the spinner first. Once that's dry, apply a straight piece of a thin slice (maybe 1mm) of your tape to form the forward edge of the white band. You need only pay attention to the edge of the strip of tape that will form the paint edge. The other edge (facing the front of the spinner) will not fit as well, being on a smaller diameter but that doesn't matter. Once the edge to be painted is secure, cut another slice of tape and form it over the first piece, overlapping slightly but leaving the edge of th efirst piece exposed. Continue this until you cover the red tip. Essentially you'll be forming a cylinder which you can eventualy press down and kink to close any gaps. Don't be shy to use lots of tape til the whole thing is covered. At this point, apply the white (may take a few coats going over the red). Once that's dry, strip the tape and repeat the process for the inner edge of the white, then paint the green.

Good luck Gerry, I got lost after the first edge.................sorry Andy, the brain cell is malfunctioning.

 

[rochie]

Gerry, Andy's idea worked for me on my P-40 "hep cat" build when i had a similar paint job on the spinner

 

[Gerry]

Thanks guys. Muggins here has a confession to make: ALWAYS CHECK THE MATERIALS SUPPLIED! I found a set of decal white bands for the spinners, on the sheet that came with the kit. This was meant for the 2nd option, a ZG2 scheme, which I passed over, and they weren't obvious from the decal diagrams. So, theoretically, I could butt up the red and green on the spinner and overlay the white decal, for a perfect division.

However, in studying the curved decal bands, I think I may have discovered a mathematical ratio that might well work in this instance and in other instances where decals aren't supplied. See the example in the diagram below.

Having measured the position of the band on the spinner, it appears that the diameter of the decal is exactly twice the diameter of the widest position the band sits on the spinner. I cut out a mask based on this ratio (freehand) and it works perfectly, if a little rough at the edges. However, if I had a circle cutter or a compass with a blade, it would have been spot on. There is a 'but', however. My measurement of the spinner was visually holding up a ruler, rather than with calipers, which I don't possess. But I think I was pretty precise.

It would be interesting to see if this works universally on all spinners shapes in different scales, and I will try it on some other spinners I have. It would be interesting to get some feedback on this theory, because if it works for others, it would simplify cutting spinner masks greatly.

Just don't ask me about spirals!!

 

[Crimea_River]

Can't see the image but, mathematically, the radius of the mask would be the length of the side of a cone formed by the tangent of the point on the curved surface corresponding to the edge of the ring on the spinner. Hard to describe without a diagram (too lazy) but looks like you have it pegged anyway.

Probably have Vic really confused now....

 

[T Bolt]

...........Probably have Vic really confused now....

You sure have me confused Andy! I just fake it with tape
..... and very nice work there Gerry!

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Thanks guys. Muggins here has a confession to make: ALWAYS CHECK THE MATERIALS SUPPLIED! I found a set of decal white bands for the spinners, on the sheet that came with the kit.

Think we all know how that feels Gerry, glad you got it sorted though.

Can't see the image but, mathematically, the radius of the mask would be the length of the side of a cone formed by the tangent of the point on the curved surface corresponding to the edge of the ring on the spinner. Hard to describe without a diagram (too lazy) but looks like you have it pegged anyway.

Probably have Vic really confused now....

 

[Gerry]

Can't see the image but, mathematically, the radius of the mask would be the length of the side of a cone formed by the tangent of the point on the curved surface corresponding to the edge of the ring on the spinner. Hard to describe without a diagram (too lazy) but looks like you have it pegged anyway.

Probably have Vic really confused now....

...And me, Andy...and me! Gotta realise I left full-time education at 16. Thanks Guys, and would be intrigued to hear if my theory holds up.

Andy, I note you've been having some trouble opening some photos, of late. I wonder if it's the same problem I'm having with a minority of photos? I've been getting a blue square with a question mark (?) in some few cases. I wonder if the recent site update has corrected this glitch?

Anyhow, must get back to building. Talk to you later.

 

[Crimea_River]

Well, I guess my engineering degree both enhances my math capabilties and reduces the quality of my narrative descriptions! I'll maybe post a sketch tonight to demonstrate what I mean. Not that it matters anymore - it's just an interesting problem and deserves to be overworked and discussed ad nauseum.

Gerry, yesterday I could not see the pic. Today I can. Wierd.

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Look forward to the VISUAL explanation Andy, I was always better a practical work.

 

[Crimea_River]

Not tonight, sorry. Worked late.

 

[Airframes]

I'm totally ******* confused! I only buy books to look at the pictures - learned that from Jan !!!

 

[Wayne Little]

Nice one Terry.. Google translation didn't help either...

 

[Gerry]

Well, back to the task in hand, building the darn thing!

Photo 1. The prop blades and spinners are done, but the spinners still have their pre-decal coat of gloss. The prop blades got a coat of RLM 70 Swartzgrun (looks black in the photos). I spray-painted the spinners white, initially. This was because at that point, I thought I would be masking the white band. Following Crimea River's advice, I masked for the red nose first then the RLM 70 back spinner, careful to leave the white band. Although I had discovered the white decal bands by this stage, I was unsure how opaque they were, so I wanted to leave a white base.

An aside: Despite careful masking I still got a little bleed in places under the masks. This seems a perennial problem for me, as no matter how carefully I cut and press-down masks, I still tend to get some bleed or ragged lines where the tape appears straight, especially on canopies. Very annoying. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but if anyone has any tips, I'd be very grateful.

Anyhow, I retouched the bleeds by hand and I reckoned the decals would cover any little inconsistencies, which proved to be the case. The decals were tricky enough to apply, but they were very robust and stood a good deal of tweaking and lots of water, before I got them looking right.

Photo 2. The next task was to mask the aircraft for painting. As you can see, I had already tested some seams and have been messing about with the airbrush. The slats won't be added till towards the end of the build.

Photos 3 4. I decided that, rather than give it my usual coat of grey primer, instead I'd give everything a base coat of RLM 76, to show any faults but still act as a base, if there weren't too many fills to do. OK - Why do unpainted filled and sanded models look as smooth as an inflated balloon and as soon as a coat of paint is added look more like a map of the moon? Needless to say, it showed up many imperfections, particularly on the nacelle tops and undersides. And that seam behind the cockpit seems a bit of a chasm. I'll have to leave the paint to harden overnight, then back to filling and sanding again. Ho hum...

Picture 5. While waiting for the paint to harden, I had a look at the cockpit. The kit supplies two versions, A B. I prefer B, where the rear section hinges open and I think is more correct for this type. But as you see, it has the openings for the upward firing cannons. It's my intention to cut that section off and replace it with the rear section of canopy A.

Well, that's enough to be getting on with, for now.

Talk again soon.

 

[Crimea_River]

What an exceptional job you did on those spinners Gerry! Well done! Not quite clear how you did it since if you started with the white, I don't see how you got such a sharp line for the red because that edge of the mask would have tended to wrinkle.

As for bleeding, what you can do is seal the mask edge with a bit of paint of the colour that you would bleed into (in your case white), then once dry, paint the new colour. That way any bleeding that does occur will be the same colour as the surface it bleeds into.

Now listen up! Here's the diagram of what I so clearly explained in post 186:

A scale profile of the spinner is used and the centerline is drawn on. Place a ruler on the point where the center of the band meets the edge of ths spinner on the profile such that the ruler just touches the edge of the spinner but does not intersect it. The line that's formed is the tangent which, if you could imagine the thing in 3D now, would form a cone if spun completely around the spinner. The distance R from the band to the apex of the cone is the radius of the mask, shown at right. The length of the mask is the diameter at the band (D) times pi. Tada!8)

 

[Airframes]

I'm still ******* confused! Mum, can I have my comic book now please?

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Gerry that's got to one of the best looking spinner paint rings I've seen in a long time. Well done mate.

Now listen up! Here's the diagram of what I so clearly explained in post 186:

Thanks a bunch Andy, now all I've go to do is find a spinner needing a ring and put your lesson into practice.

 

[Wayne Little]

Thanks Andy!

 

[Gerry]

Thanks to everyone who've contributed to the 'spinner diagram dilemma'.

Andy, you're absolutely right re the spinner masking. I adapted your instructions to accomodate the fact that I had pre-painted the spinners white, on the basis that it would be easier to paint onto white, than to paint white onto solid colours. This was done over a week ago, before we even started discussing the masking methods. When I masked for the red tip, then removed the mask, the result wasn't brilliant. I had the aforementioned bleed and a pretty uneven line. between the red and white. Got the same result with the white/green divide, perhaps a little less so, but still not acceptable. The saving grace was the white decals, which after a little freehand retouching of the bleeding, were opaque enough to cover up the imperfections. So that sharp divide is purely down to the white decal bands.

Now about your diagram - much easier to understand when it's expressed as clearly as that. I'm going to check it out, at some stage, on my spinners (sad person) and see if the results are anywhere near my own estimate. Will post the result. I reckoned that there had to be a mathematical solution, and there probably is also one for calculating a spiral...BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO THERE! I feel it's a reflection on the calibre of the Forum that we can discuss such erudite matters in a reasoned, academic and civilised manner.

Next week: Brain Surgery for beginners - The Comic.