**** DONE: GB-36 1/48 Bf 109E-4 - Axis Manufactured Aircraft of WWII

my rough science FWIW

The line drawing shows that the outer wingtip should be in the same horizontal plane as the underside of the air intake on the fuselage. that reference point is in turn slightly above the centre hub of the engine



Applying the same methodology to Terry's photo, which I have to assume is a direct head on shot, we get the following results


it looks pretty right to me


To cross reference Andy's model, we would need the same or similar shot from directly head on. not possible to verify one way or the other at this moment.

Yep. I lined it up with the cannon opening in the prop hub.

I think that the dihedral on your model andy would be too much dihedral then.

was interested to have a glance at the professors shot as well and came up with this analysis 9had to rotate his image a bit to do it):



more or less confirms that the line drawing is correct, the theory to the rough science is sort of okay,and terry's dihedral more or less spot on the money

Good stuff Michael.
My pic is not quite head-on, but a close as I could get, balancing the model, and for camera angle (hand held). I'm glad to see that the dihedral on mine is close enough - if it is slightly 'out', then I'm sure a blind man on a galloping horse wouldn't notice !!!

Haven't got any more done so far, as I've been 'tweaking' a few small things on the Bf110, but there's a chance I might get the first painting stage done tomorrow, using RLM 65 overall as a base coat / primer.

Couldn't sleep properly, so got up and continued with this build.

The leading edge Handley Page slats provided in the kit, can be fitted either fully deployed or, after removing the 'hinges', fitted in the closed position.
I wanted to portray them as seen on many '109's, including the pic of this subject posted earlier in this thread, with the slats only just slightly open.
After test fitting to see what would be required to accomplish this, I noticed that Tamiya hadn't quite got it right.
If the slats are fitted fully open, then they are too equally spaced, and 'straight', and the gap between the rear of the slat and the wing leading edge recess is too great.
The leading edge of the slat should follow the line of the leading edge of the wing, with the spacing outboard being less than that inboard. On the real aircraft, when open, the gap at the outboard, upper surface edge, was 12 mm, with the inboard upper surface gap being 18 mm. Underside gaps were 56mm and 72 mm respectively.
Having established this, the hinges on the parts were trimmed and filed to shape, to allow the slats to be fitted with the correct angles, in a partially deployed position. (the real slats, if fully open, can be closed by light pressure of a couple of fingers, as they slide easily on the hinge tracks.).
Test fitting showed how much plastic to remove, and the angle required to be filed onto the underside and rear faces of the 'hinges' and, when this was completed, the slats were cemented in place. I had intended to leave them off whilst painting the model, so that the recesses on the wing could be painted RLM 02 and then masked, fitting the slats after painting. However, the gaps are so small, that it should be an easy task to re-touch any areas of the recesses as required.
The pics below show the differences between the kit parts fit, and the modified parts, along with the process involved to achieve the desired result.

PIC 1. The slat as provided in the kit, dry-fitted in the fully deployed position. Note how the angle of the slat differs to that of the leading edge of the wing, with an equal gap along the rear edge.
PIC 2. Dry fit of a modified slat, partly open - note the difference in the angle in relation to the wing leading edge, and the differing gaps at inboard and outboard ends.
PIC 3. This is the underside of each slat, with the modified slat hinges shown on the left, and the kit part as provided on the right.
PICS 4 to 6. The modified slats cemented in place, partly deployed.
PIC 7. How the model looks to date, with the slats in place, the supercharger intake fitted, and the main cowling tacked in place with PVA. The model can now be masked where required, ready for painting, and I hope to get the RLM 65 sprayed later today. The flaps and tail-planes and struts, will be painted separately, and fitted later.

Thanks again for your interest, and I hope to have another up-date, with some paint on, later this evening.

Good work Terry. Those gaps on the real aircraft you quoted sound odd. How could the lower and upper gaps be different if the slats had to recess into the wing? The upper gap would close after 18mm of movement (inner) leaving a 54mm gap at the bottom. The lower gap dimensions sound reasonable for a fully deployed slat in my opinion.

Check out this shot showing what I believe to be a fully deployed slat.

Thanks Andy.
I took the information from a description and scale drawings published back in around 1980, which I believe was compiled from measurements taken from a preserved 'Emil'.
I agree that the gaps sound a little odd, but bear in mind the contour of the aerofoil of both the wing, and the slat, the latter 'wrapping around' on it's lower edge, and the fact that the hinge tracks are curved, and it then sounds probably right. As the slats deploy, they not only move forward, but also downward, along the curve of the leading edge, but at the same time staying in line with the leading edge of the wing, not deploying straight out, and the leading edge is 'recessed' where the slats fit when retracted, so the gaps will be 'uneven' when open.
Of course, it is possible that the figures shown on the drawings have been incorrectly printed, but I do remember looking closely at the slats of a Buchon, when I was involved with airshow ground handling and, from memory, those figures seem to roughly tally with what I saw of the gaps.
Either way, whatever the measurements should be, the slats should be as shown, and not as Tamiya model them, although of course the limitations of moulding etc probably account for this, and it's good that they are provided as separate parts.

Yeah, I get that they move on an arc but that wouldn't make that big a difference if you think about it.

Here's a good link showing the dimensions. Plane Talking - HyperScale's Aircraft Scale Model Discussion Forum: Slat measurements of the Messerschmitt Bf 109E

I think the upper numbers you quoted are the space formed between the slat and wing.

You're correct Andy, I should have clarified that. The upper numbers are the space between the slat and the wing. From what I remember, and from studying photos, the space between the rear edge of the slat, and the front edge of the wing recess, was closer to 2 to 3 inches, at the outboard end, when the slat was fully deployed.
When I go to Cosford in a couple of weeks, I'll see if I can find out more from the Bf109G, although I think the slat profile was different on the F/G wing.

And my two cents to the matter of slots....

Looks great so far Terry!

Thanks Hugh.

Got the first painting stage done, with the RLM 65 sprayed overall. Two coats on the fuselage and underside, and a single, thin coat on the upper wings, to act as primer, mainly for the yellow wing tips.
The flaps, rudder, tail-planes and undercarriage doors were sprayed separately.

PIC 1. The ribs on the rudder look rather heavy, so these were sanded down a little before painting. I'm afriad I couldn't get a decent pic of the result after sanding, but this should be apparent when the painted rudder is shown, later.
PICS 2 and 3. Cockpit, wheel bays and radiators masked, ready for spraying.
PICS 4 and 5. The RLM 65 (Humbrol No.65 matt enamel) sprayed overall, with a lighter 'primer' coat on the upper wings and upper tail-planes.

Next step is to spray the yellow wing tips, tail-pane tips and the segment on the rudder. When this has fully dried, the areas will be masked, and the first camouflage colour, RLM 02, sprayed.
I hope to get this done either later tonight, if I stay up for a while, or tomorrow.
Thanks again for the continued interest, and i'll be back with another up-date soon.

Looking good Terry Looking forward to the full camo.

Very nice and great info/discussion. As always it is a joy to watch all you guys work and this is a really cool subject as I was looking at the Tamiya 109 E3.

Coming along very well terry.

I will for sure be sipping and comparing your "RLM 65" facsimile to mine, just as a final check to make sure Ive got it right. I think after the final tweaks I did on my concoction that Ive got a close colour match now…….but will wait and see

Good stuff Terry. Looks like you'll be done in no time.

Thanks all.

Got the yellow done on the wing tips, tail-plane tips, and the segment on the rudder.
The yellow was a relatively deep shade, sometimes referred to, in RAF crash reports, as 'orange'. To replicate this, Humbrol No.24 Matt Trainer Yellow enamel, was mixed with a drop of red, adjusting the mix until it looked right - very technical !!
These areas will now be masked for spraying the camouflage colours, and the clear coats, as I want to show the surface contrast between the camouflage paint, and the 'washable', distemper-type paint used for the yellow I.D. markings on the real aircraft.

PICS 1 and 2. Yellow wing tips,
PIC 3. The underside of the tail-planes, with the yellow tips done, and the fixed trim tabs painted red.
PIC 4. Rudder, showing the yellow segment, and the trim tab painted, which needs to be improved slightly. The ribs had been sanded down, as can be seen in this pic, compared to the previously posted pic of the un-painted rudder.

Next step is to lay down a spaced mask on the fuselage, in order to obtain a soft-edged demarcation of the main camouflage colours, with the RLM 02 being sprayed first, overall.
Close examination of photos of the actual aircraft show that the demarcation between the RLM 02 and RLM 71 'splinter' pattern, was also a subtle, soft edge, so again, a spaced mask will be used, and the spraying done with my 0.20 mm airbrush, at least for the edges.
I should get the RLM 02 done later today and, with a bit of luck, I might be able to get the RLM 71 done tonight.
Given there are no problems or **** ups, there's a good chance I might have this finished by the end of this week. If so, then I'll throw in another '109, this time a Bf109G-6/R6, flown by Major Ludwig Fransisket, Gruppenkommandeur of I/JG27, in 1944.

parsifal said:

Coming along very well terry.

Click to expand...

I second that

Thanks Steph.