**** DONE: GB-36 1/72 BF 109E-4 - Axis Manufactured Aircraft of WWII

[parsifal]

Hoping for this effect to be replicated....

I don't think that is oil staining per se. Whatever the cause of that discolouration, its very visible, but also very subtle. I'm not convinced its just grime........maybe some previous colour scheme that has been sprayed over?

My plan was to prime parts of the fuselage (and other parts) with a darker primer, and apply the top coat as a very thin application.

is there a better way to do that?

 

[Wurger]

........maybe some previous colour scheme that has been sprayed over?

Nope. The kite wore the RLM70/02/65 camo scheme with the high demarcation line for the top and side colours. The only previous camo scheme would be the RLM70/71 for tops and sides with the RLM65 for undersides only. IMHO the stains might have been caused by an attempt to clean ( wash ) up of surfaces with a rag soaked either with water or clear thinner. Because of some dust, oil drops or just a dirty rag these stains could appear, especially the RLM 65 paint was matt.. Please note a similar stain below the unit emblem.. Although the cleaning may seem to be done fine , very small grains of dust or dirt gathered on the matt surface there cause a such area getting draker in time because of moisture in the air for instance.

To be honest I'm still having doubts about the top camo interpretation of the front part of the fuselage for the crashed plane.

 

[Airframes]

I agree. It's very probable that those 'stains' were not there before the crash-landing.
The photo above is interesting, as it shows what is very possibly the original 'saddle' cowling over the guns, which has a different colour demarcation and pattern to the one shown in the 'crash' photos, matching the main cowling, and agrees with the statements from 50+ years ago, regarding a replacement saddle cowling.
At that time (mid 1960's) it was suggested that the top of the saddle cowling might have had a mottled finish. This may be so, but it could also be the effect of dust and dirt from the landing. The aircraft came down in a harvested hop field, ploughing through the light, dusty soil and hop roots, throwing up a lot of dirt and dust, as evidenced by the tones on the main wings, and the top of the main cowling, and also the dust accumulated around the spinner and in the engine bay.
At the very least, this section of the cowling certainly has a higher demarcation, and, if not mottled, then it is a lighter shade of possibly RLM 02.

 

[Wurger]

Yep..and that's my doubt about the the original 'saddle' cowling over the gun, my friend, There wasn't any mottling there and also it wasn't of higher demarcation line or taken from another plane..

 

[Airframes]

Yep. The one fitted when the aircraft crashed is definitely a different saddle cowling, as stated in some publications back in the 1960's. I haven't found any references as to when, or why, the cowling was changed.
For ease of painting, unless it is definitely required to be portrayed as it was on 5th September, I think I'd go with a 'clean' RLM 65, and the 'original' saddle cowling, with the even demarcation, especially in this scale.

 

[Wurger]

I agree. But still thinking the saddle cowling wasn't changed. The confusion is caused by the light glare at the oily and dirty surface that caused the top camo colour not seen at the edge with the angle.

 

[Airframes]

That's also a possibility, but it does look as if the demarcation is higher, and possibly softer, on the starboard side, even allowing for the dirt etc, and the fact that the cowling is un-latched, and sitting slightly higher than in the fully locked position.
I doubt that it is mottled - more likely just the effect of the light on the dust on the surface.

 

[Wurger]

The front edges of the cowling is up much higher the it is expected Pal. Please have a look at the fasteners of the main cowling. The part is also up because these fasteners gave way. I would say the the saddle part is not only up but moved a little bit forward. The horizontal edge of the part and the same of the fusealge above the unit emblem aren't parallel but make an angle. If you would draw a line for the edge of the saddle cowling you found the demarcation line of the camo there. According to that the line is rather closer to the darker area there than to the ligher one..

 

[Airframes]

Yes, I see that. The cowlings will have been unlatched in order to remove the saddle cowl to gain access to the ammo magazines and make the guns safe.
Even allowing for the displacement of the cowlings, there still appears to be a slight unevenness between the demarcation line of the two sections.
That said, if we were able to go back and replace the cowlings properly, and clean off the dust, it is possible that all would be in order !
Now where's my 'Tardis' parked .....................

 

[Wurger]

Here is an enlarged part of the image of the saddle part. With the red line "A" I marked the possible demarcation line. The green line "B" indicates the level of the demarcation while the cowling is latched properly. The red "C" and "D" show a kind of appertures that appeared because of the cowling displacement. IMHO the part and the main engine cowling were just put on its places for some reason. Perhaps because of the pic taking.
However I would like to make a focus on the way these brighter spots over the red line "A" look like. The higher up these become darker and seem to be of quite regular, repeatable shapes that resambling water/sand streaming down with oily/very smooth curved surface. The most of the water/sand always gathers at the bottom while the higher the less of the stuff. Therefore the bottom area of the cowling is brighter what results in merging with the RLM 65 light tone.

 

[Airframes]

Yep, I agree !
Looks like we've finally solved the 'puzzle' of the replacement saddle cowling !
So, in a nutshell - overall clean RLM 65 sides and undersides, with RLM 71 / RLM 02 upper surfaces, soft - edged demarcation, and underside colour wraps around leading edges of main planes.
Easy peasy !

 

[Wurger]

Just my opinion Terry..


Where is your 'Tardis" parked? ...

 

[Airframes]

Next to the Battlestar Gallactica, blocked in by a 'X' Fighter !

 

[Wurger]

Aha... call for the Municipal Police if the X-wing blocked the Tardis. I think it is not legally

 

[Crimea_River]

MIchael, I see now what your are trying to do. If you are trying to replicate the patchy look then what you plan to do is certainly one way to go about it. My only suggestion would be to make the patches more random in spacing and in size. They look too regular now and that's what threw me.

 

[fubar57]

Great stuff.....I need a smoke

 

[parsifal]

Ive kind of put a decision off on the surface treatment of the outer skin, but have watched the discussion between Terry and Wurger with a lot of interest. those dots are very reversible and the impact they are meant to help create might be a 'pot crash" effect. The opinion seems to be that they (the discolouration) were not there before the aircraft came down, though this is not proven one way or the other. There is a lot of weathering along the sheet joins and in the rivets which I can do, and be reasonably certain of an accurate effect. The discolouration of the "white" is less certain on two counts....how to do it effectively and was it there before the aircraft came down? I will need to think and listen a little more I think. the discolouration they are meant to cause for the moment I'm working on the innards and hope to be sufficiently advanced as to warrant another diary entry. ive built a throttle, trim wheel, both out of scrap. added a control box or two. Ive started to add some detail to the engine, starting with the deck mounted gun barrels. Fabricated a harness, painted and installed the control stick and the foot rudder controls. So far things look okay to me.

 

[Wurger]

It seems that these two discoloured spots at the black bar marking on the fusealge either appeared when the plane was forced landing or these had been there before. Here is the enlarged part of the pic posted by Terry. Can you see? The reason for the stains there could be an oil or brake fluid from broken duct etc.. But if these were there earlier the reason for that could be as I mentioned it in my post above. Anyway the stains along the panel lines seem to be quite common for planes kept "under a cloud " because of the rain, dust for instance. Usually these can be achieved by the preshading like John and others guys here make. If you want to get the stains like these at the bar you may use some of unclean thinner with a soaked Q-tip for example.. and applied on the clean matt paint there. Of course the paint has to be cured before you can apply the dirt..

 

[parsifal]

A diary update....

Ive drilled two holes in the firewall, into which I intend to mount the deck fitted MGs. There are mouldings on the upper cowl which I am considering to drill out and replace. if I do, I will need source out some really fine metal tubing. I tried syringe needles but the superfine ones that I have (I am an insulin dependant diabetic) are too fine . I will see if I can source any material out in the coming week. Having a proper set of "barrels instead of a plastic blob would be cool if I can do it I think.

This is a close up of the IP, with clear sight fitted and facings precoloured to take the decals . I will refine the prepainting a little before finishing this element and the lower part of the gunsight also needs painting.

Sidewalls are finished, joystick paintied and fitted foot controls also. Harness has been fabricated. its okay, but I had a hard time getting the scaling right. I don't mind what ive done and not a lot will be visible, but then again it bothers me enough to warrant a redo.

Shoul the pilot seat be sticking forward like that?

 

[Wurger]

Generally the pilit's chair looks a little bit incorrect I would say. Also it shouln't be sticking like that looking at your pic. There was a kind of a bracket at the top of the back rest for attaching it to the bulkhead behind the seat. . Additionally the side seat belts should have been attached to the chair but not to the chair base. Here diagrams...