Crimea_River
Marshal
A very good effort at such a small scale. The IP looks very good but unfortunately the background colour should be RLM 66, a very dark grey.
**** DONE: GB-36 1/72 BF 109E-4 - Axis Manufactured Aircraft of WWII
- Thread starter parsifal
- Start date
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turbo
Staff Sergeant
Your AM items will help a lot there Michael. Your scratch built belts are overscale, but that's a pretty hard ask in 1/72. When you install the resin seat, perhaps save them for a 1/48 build?
I was in the right place Michael, down the beach! But we did get this down our way in Victoria -
I was in the right place Michael, down the beach! But we did get this down our way in Victoria -
- Thread starter
- #63
parsifal
Colonel
Oh blast. cant do much about the upper half, but I could repaint the lower half.
is just showing my lack of knowledge of this machine.....
Crimea_River
Marshal
The instructions should have given you the right info. Surpised if it said to paint it that colour.
Lovely work so far!
Doin' ok Michael.
- Thread starter
- #67
parsifal
Colonel
THANKS GUYS
Not much happening at the moment. Although Terry has very kindly sent me a lot of reference material to help in this build. I cant thank you enough terry.
I have to cool my heels whilst I wait for the aftermarket stuff to arrive. I did deconstruct the cockpit, managing to remove the existing pilots seat without damaging it . That's a handy bonus.....I might still need it. not so lucky with the control column, though I have kept the broken piece....just in case...
Added some further details to the cockpit walls trying to replicate the images that terry has provided. these pieces are all scratch built with the close ups as usual very brutal. all I can say is at normal magnification the side walls look quite acceptable. I added a few bibs and bobs to both side walls.
Finally the IP. retouched the revis sigt to add the front padded bit, repainted the IP backing board to the darker version of grey I'm using as my RLM substitute (darker than before), added the lower dials and then a couple of my own. the close up of my own addition is again very tough, and again at regular magnification I cant find any unacceptable faults with it. Will have to wit until final assembly of the cockpit is done to verify.
Anyway, here are the shots.....
Seat removed from the cockpit. broken control column is visible.
my interpretation of that detail
Not much happening at the moment. Although Terry has very kindly sent me a lot of reference material to help in this build. I cant thank you enough terry.
I have to cool my heels whilst I wait for the aftermarket stuff to arrive. I did deconstruct the cockpit, managing to remove the existing pilots seat without damaging it . That's a handy bonus.....I might still need it. not so lucky with the control column, though I have kept the broken piece....just in case...
Added some further details to the cockpit walls trying to replicate the images that terry has provided. these pieces are all scratch built with the close ups as usual very brutal. all I can say is at normal magnification the side walls look quite acceptable. I added a few bibs and bobs to both side walls.
Finally the IP. retouched the revis sigt to add the front padded bit, repainted the IP backing board to the darker version of grey I'm using as my RLM substitute (darker than before), added the lower dials and then a couple of my own. the close up of my own addition is again very tough, and again at regular magnification I cant find any unacceptable faults with it. Will have to wit until final assembly of the cockpit is done to verify.
Anyway, here are the shots.....
Seat removed from the cockpit. broken control column is visible.
my interpretation of that detail
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turbo
Staff Sergeant
Nice job Michael, look forward to the AM goodies...
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Good stuff, especially in the small scale.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Good work Michael.
le_steph40
Chief Master Sergeant
- Thread starter
- #73
parsifal
Colonel
my gun barrels have arrived and I would like to have a go at fitting them to the engine cowl. I have ideas of keeping the cowl a detachable part so that the engine bay can be seen. we will see how they pan out.
I ve removed the plastic gun stubs for the MG 17 from the cowl and made very small openings into the fairings. The aftermarket gun barrles are about 1.5mm longer than they need to me, which I think is to allow for them to be attached to the inside of the cowl. I believe I have to prepaint these barrels before attachment, and also prepaint the cowl. I seems to be the logical way to go.
So that means I have to return to the painting issue and consider the shading issue again. oh joy.
I found the following site which gives colour equivalent for various LW schemes . I'm sure you guys know about this site....its called IPMS
Here is the link....
Color Reference Charts - Germany
According to the kit instructions the lower surfaces of the fuselage should be painted Humbrol 31 Slate grey. I don't have humbrol colours, I am using Tamiya acrylics. The nearest I can get to humbrol 31 in the Tamiya range is XF-80 Royal light grey. its a pretty close match to me.
The IPMS site does not agree with the Airfix instructions...... According to this IPMS site , the lower surfaces of LW fighters in this period should be
'RLM 76 Lichtblau Lower surfaces on fighter a/c. Also used extensively for night fighters".....the site advises that the Tamiya equivalent is 6 parts :XF-23 (light blue) + 4 partsT:XF-2 (white)
I am tending to think the IPMS instructions are more correct
for the upper surfaces , the Airfix instructions are to use humbrol 117 US light green. The IPMS site suggest the nearest equivalent for that is "
RLM 71 Dunkelgrun Wartime splinter scheme", with the Tamiya equivalent being XF-61 (dark green). that looks pretty close to me as well
I am tending towards following the IPMS recommendations, but would welcome your opinions and advice before committing. Ive made enough painting errors on this build already I think.
I ve removed the plastic gun stubs for the MG 17 from the cowl and made very small openings into the fairings. The aftermarket gun barrles are about 1.5mm longer than they need to me, which I think is to allow for them to be attached to the inside of the cowl. I believe I have to prepaint these barrels before attachment, and also prepaint the cowl. I seems to be the logical way to go.
So that means I have to return to the painting issue and consider the shading issue again. oh joy.
I found the following site which gives colour equivalent for various LW schemes . I'm sure you guys know about this site....its called IPMS
Here is the link....
Color Reference Charts - Germany
According to the kit instructions the lower surfaces of the fuselage should be painted Humbrol 31 Slate grey. I don't have humbrol colours, I am using Tamiya acrylics. The nearest I can get to humbrol 31 in the Tamiya range is XF-80 Royal light grey. its a pretty close match to me.
The IPMS site does not agree with the Airfix instructions...... According to this IPMS site , the lower surfaces of LW fighters in this period should be
'RLM 76 Lichtblau Lower surfaces on fighter a/c. Also used extensively for night fighters".....the site advises that the Tamiya equivalent is 6 parts :XF-23 (light blue) + 4 partsT:XF-2 (white)
I am tending to think the IPMS instructions are more correct
for the upper surfaces , the Airfix instructions are to use humbrol 117 US light green. The IPMS site suggest the nearest equivalent for that is "
RLM 71 Dunkelgrun Wartime splinter scheme", with the Tamiya equivalent being XF-61 (dark green). that looks pretty close to me as well
I am tending towards following the IPMS recommendations, but would welcome your opinions and advice before committing. Ive made enough painting errors on this build already I think.
Michael, you don't need the RLM 76 Hellgrau (Lichtblau) for the camo of your model. The one applied on the kite was RLM 65 Hellblau on undersides. The RLM 76 was used later IMHO. The difference between the RLM 65 and 76 is not only the name but also the colour. The RLM 65 was a quite light blue colour while the RLM76 was a grey of bluish tone paint. What is more it might be found of two tinges called an earlier and later war one for the RLM 76 . The FS number for the RLM 65 can be FS35414 or FS35352 or FS25526 Here you are ..
- Thread starter
- #75
parsifal
Colonel
for RLM 65 the site says the Tamiya equivalent is straight XF23 (Light blue)
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I agree with Wojtek.
I don't know where Airfix got their colour references from, especially as they market the Humbrol range of paints, and should be stating those colours.
The upper surface camouflage of this aircraft was the standard splinter scheme of RLM 71 (Dunkelgrun) and RLM 02, with the fuselage sides and undersides in RLM 65 (Hellblau).
The Humbrol equivalents (in enamels) are No.65 for the RLM 65, and No.31 (Slate Grey) for the RLM 02. There are a few Humbrol colours that are close to RLM 71, the nearest being No.116 US Dark Green, or No.163 Satin Dark Green, and I'm currently using No.105 Marine Green. All of these greens should really be adjusted slightly, either by very slight darkening (add a tiny touch of black) or more to an olive shade (add a tiny touch of mid-brown or Dark Earth), but in general are close enough, in scale effect, to the actual green used.
My current Bf110 build used the Humbrol No.65 for RLM 65, and the Humbrol No.105 for the RLM 71, with the RLM 70 (Schwarzgrun) being mixed from the No.105 and No.33 Matt Black.
I don't know where Airfix got their colour references from, especially as they market the Humbrol range of paints, and should be stating those colours.
The upper surface camouflage of this aircraft was the standard splinter scheme of RLM 71 (Dunkelgrun) and RLM 02, with the fuselage sides and undersides in RLM 65 (Hellblau).
The Humbrol equivalents (in enamels) are No.65 for the RLM 65, and No.31 (Slate Grey) for the RLM 02. There are a few Humbrol colours that are close to RLM 71, the nearest being No.116 US Dark Green, or No.163 Satin Dark Green, and I'm currently using No.105 Marine Green. All of these greens should really be adjusted slightly, either by very slight darkening (add a tiny touch of black) or more to an olive shade (add a tiny touch of mid-brown or Dark Earth), but in general are close enough, in scale effect, to the actual green used.
My current Bf110 build used the Humbrol No.65 for RLM 65, and the Humbrol No.105 for the RLM 71, with the RLM 70 (Schwarzgrun) being mixed from the No.105 and No.33 Matt Black.
- Thread starter
- #77
parsifal
Colonel
I have to make a decision here. The decision has to be based on the best available information that I can get hold of, and take into account the competing opinions.
The test strips I have done with just XF-23 are coming up too "blue" for me to be able to say they are a good colour match to the best available reference materil that I have. I am relying principally on the Squadron/Signal booklet by Bearman. Terry has also provided some really good information.
Most of these sources are rendered drawings as far as colour interpretation is concerned. Even if I had access to colour photos of the aircraft, the colour rendition of the photo is questionable, given the time frame. In my opinion, the best way to making a solid defensible decision is to base the colour on the advice, but also have regard to those colour renditions.
Further test strips suggest the optimal colour to match the rendered images is a base colour of XF-23, thinned down, mixed with about 20% XF-2 (white). This produces a more pale version of blue compared to the basic XF-23 and much closer to the coloration shown in the attached colour plates
I will post the test strips for the blended colour I have mixed later tonite.
I hope none of you guys are put out by the methodology I am using. I am reso9lving this problem as well as I can, it is not my intention to ignore or not consider any of the very high quality advice that im receiving
The test strips I have done with just XF-23 are coming up too "blue" for me to be able to say they are a good colour match to the best available reference materil that I have. I am relying principally on the Squadron/Signal booklet by Bearman. Terry has also provided some really good information.
Most of these sources are rendered drawings as far as colour interpretation is concerned. Even if I had access to colour photos of the aircraft, the colour rendition of the photo is questionable, given the time frame. In my opinion, the best way to making a solid defensible decision is to base the colour on the advice, but also have regard to those colour renditions.
Further test strips suggest the optimal colour to match the rendered images is a base colour of XF-23, thinned down, mixed with about 20% XF-2 (white). This produces a more pale version of blue compared to the basic XF-23 and much closer to the coloration shown in the attached colour plates
I will post the test strips for the blended colour I have mixed later tonite.
I hope none of you guys are put out by the methodology I am using. I am reso9lving this problem as well as I can, it is not my intention to ignore or not consider any of the very high quality advice that im receiving
And yes, that's the paint for the Tamiya.
And I would follow the profile rather than these you posted above Michael. The only thing I would correct would be the "saddle". The camo there should be applied the same way it is on the top of the front engine cowling.
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Michael, the illustration you posted shows a late colour scheme on the downed '109,which was believed to be the 'forerunner' of the three grays used from very late 1940, and then officially from 1941, these being RLM 74.75 and 76. The colours on von Werra's aircraft were not these shades.
The profile of the JG52 aircraft shows RLM 65 with either RLM 70/71 or RLM 71/02", even though the caption states "RLM Gray and Dark Grey"the printed toners being an approximation only.
Ignoring the yellow nose and the mottle sides, the required finish should look something like that seen on my old (25+ years ago) Hasegawa 1/48th scale Bf109E, below.
The profile of the JG52 aircraft shows RLM 65 with either RLM 70/71 or RLM 71/02", even though the caption states "RLM Gray and Dark Grey"the printed toners being an approximation only.
Ignoring the yellow nose and the mottle sides, the required finish should look something like that seen on my old (25+ years ago) Hasegawa 1/48th scale Bf109E, below.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Just an addition I forgo to mention some time ago.
The apparent light mottle, or perhaps staining, shown in some photos and some profiles, on the fuselage sides, was not paint.
Information in Luftwaffe Crash Archive Vol 2, taken from the crash reports, states that the fuselage sides were clean, and smooth,any blemishes being dust and grime as a result of the crash-landing and later handling from dismantling and transport to the salvage yard.
The apparent light mottle, or perhaps staining, shown in some photos and some profiles, on the fuselage sides, was not paint.
Information in Luftwaffe Crash Archive Vol 2, taken from the crash reports, states that the fuselage sides were clean, and smooth,any blemishes being dust and grime as a result of the crash-landing and later handling from dismantling and transport to the salvage yard.
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